2T rebuild, failure, what went wrong??

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This topic contains 58 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Bruce Curtis 15 years ago.

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  • #98216

    Mick D
    Member

    Bloody hell, 6 weeks after doing a top end rebuild on my young blokes KX85,it has experienced a major failure. This bike has been super reliable and after the rebuild it would start first kick, idle like a beauty and go like the clappers. Last Wednesday arvo we had it on the grass track at Mooses and it was going great, so well in fact my 8 year old daughter could start it. It was flying right up to when we loaded it onto the trailer.

    Yesterday morning I went to start it and it took about 8 kicks to start it (highly unusual) then once it started it sounded fine although it wouldn’t idle. It then stalled and wouldn’t start so I clutch started it and it started again and would rev out OK yet still wouldn’t idle, so I used the throttle to hold it just above idle and it started to make a fast ticking noise and then stopped abruptly and wouldn’t start again.

    A serious lack of compression told me something serious had gone wrong, so off with the head. As soon as the head was off I could see trouble, there was a piece of piston ring embedded into the crown of the piston and there was a scarp on the barrel above the exhaust port . So I then started to remove the barrel, which proved to be a bitch as it didn’t want to come off like it was supposed too. I eventually got it off with much twisting and pulling, all the time I could feel that what was left of the rings was scoring the crap out of the bore. Once the barrel was off, I inspected it and the bore is cactus and the piston looked like this;

    SDC10416.jpg

    6 weeks ago that was a brand new piston and rings and it would have about 6hrs of hard riding on it since the rebuild.

    My 1st question is what has gone wrong to cause this? It was running sweet since the rebuild and all of a sudden it failed at almost idle speed when cold.

    I dunno if you can tell from the photo but it appears that the ring has failed on the end near the gap. The only thing that I can think of is that I made the mistake of thinking because they where genuine parts that there would be no need to check the ring gap and due to insufficient gap, the piston ring has” bunched up” so to speak and caught on the exhaust port.

    My 2nd question is what to do with the stuffed barrel? Get it replated with Nikosil, bored out and have a cast iron liner put in or do I spend mega bucks and buy a whole new barrel and top end?

    #173900

    Roy
    Member

    I can’t explain it, but am feeling sorry for your young blokes heart and your wallet.

    #173909

    Bill
    Member

    Check the ends of the rings if there shiny there was not enough end gap will be in town this arvo ill drop in and have a look
    if you want

    #173917

    Mick D
    Member

    KTM Bull wrote:

    Quote:
    Check the ends of the rings if there shiny there was not enough end gap will be in town this arvo ill drop in and have a look
    if you want

    The end of the ring is embedded in the top of the piston. :S

    Yeah do that Bill, I will be home from 4.30. I have spoken to Lindsay at Probore in Port Macquarie this morning and he is looking at my options and will give me a quote today I hope. I have also contacted a bloke in Japan to see how much a new barrel and pistons etc will cost from there. They are about $520 from the states.

    #173910

    Mick D
    Member

    Bundyroy wrote:

    Quote:
    I can’t explain it, but am feeling sorry for your young blokes heart and your wallet.

    I have been offered another KX85 for him to ride at next weekends race meeting so he is happy(thanks Moose), my wallet will feel the after shocks for some time to come though. :(

    #173918

    Anonymous

    Excess heat makes them shiny. What do you mean what part of the ring TB? It’s round so there is no end and only one of it’s four faces touches the bore :P

    Sorry to hear this Mick, it’s a bummer for your nipper an for you. Nice to see the Old Bulls rallying to help. I’d be interested to hear what the prices are for Nikasil Vs re-sleeving.

    #173920

    Mick D
    Member

    Moose just got his YZ125 re sleeved with a cast iron sleeve and it seems to be going well, although I think you are supposed to do jetting changes and run it richer with the cast bore. Dont quote me on that though.

    I showed the piston to Rod at Mud and Tar and he said that there was some unusual wear marks on the piston for only 6 hrs, it was like that bore was worn out and the piston got real shiney in spots were it was hitting the bore.
    If that makes sence. :huh:

    #173921

    Anonymous

    Maybe the iron sleeve needs to run a bit cooler, would make sense. Are the shiny on the PISTON or or on the RINGS, or both? Can’t you tell with the rings because they are in a million pieces?

    A quick eBay search confirms you van get a new head from the States delivered to your door for $350 US. Still money you’d rather spend elsewhere though I guess.

    #173923

    Mick D
    Member

    Head or barrel Moto?? I searched all morning through all 2400 listings and only found one listing that was for about AU$400. THe barrels are different from 06 onwards (different part number) I think it has to do with a different power valve.

    #173922

    Greg
    Member

    micknmeld wrote:

    Quote:
    I showed the piston to Rod at Mud and Tar and he said that there was some unusual wear marks on the piston for only 6 hrs, it was like that bore was worn out and the piston got real shiney in spots were it was hitting the bore.
    If that makes sence. :huh:

    That does make sense and ties in with Bull and what I said last night when you rang I reckon the bore is worn out as you said had never been touched and done heaps and heaps of hrs. Throwing rings in them regularly as the sacrificial wearing component maybe cheaper in the long run

    With a worn bore there are a lot of things that could have all added up to cause this failure. Its hard to pin point it with one picture :laugh: so Rod and Bull will have to be the Johnny on the spot as such. Maybe Bull and you Mick could show the correct location and way to measure ring end cap in the cylinder as well?

    I know what Bulls talking about Moto and where on the rings it occurs I was hoping he will go into more detail for those that don’t is all :)

    Shame Mick

    TB

    #173924

    Anonymous

    Head.

    $316.44 AUD with $53.31 shipping to Newcastle, Australia. You’d still need a piston, rings, gasket set and all that crap though.

    Try this link if interested

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAWASAKI-KX85-KX-85-CYLINDER-HEAD-TOP-END-DIRT-BIKE-MX_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d284cf3efQQitemZ400108090351QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_500wt_956

    EDIT: The link doesn’t appear??? Either using the BB Code or just pasting in the link? Maybe a moderator can help me :laugh:

    Mick – The link is in the text so try and ‘EDIT’ my post and hopefully you’ll be able to see it.

    #173925

    Anonymous

    The Item number is 400108090351 and the seller is Chaplin Kawasaki. You should be able to find details there mate :)

    #173926

    Mick D
    Member

    yeah I saw those this morning, they are for an 05 model which is no good to me.

    I cant look at Ebay at work ( i would get no work done if I could)so I will have to have another look at your link this arvo.

    #173927

    Bruce Curtis
    Member

    Your photos are pretty ordinary considering your profession Michael!!!

    Me myself and I reckon it’s a combination of two things, I;ll wait and see what the knowledgeable laddies say.

    For the fix, I’d send it to Eric Gorr and for similar money to a straight replate you can get a pretty good well dialed setup, to back this I am sending mine to him at replating time for a B/Bore, torque porting and replate for around the same as Electrosil want just to plate here.

    http://www.eric-gorr.com/index.html

    That regime you were boasting of Mick……Mmmm bitten right on the arse by it eh?

    #173930

    Mick D
    Member

    IT is funny you should mention Eric Gore Bruce. I just got of the phone from a mate(Gasit) and he said exactly the same thing.He has a KX that has had the Gore treatment and it rips!! Thanks for the link as I was just about to google him.

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