300 EXC Top End Rebuild

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  • #99749

    Roy
    Member

    Time to put a second top end in my bike. Paid the shop to do it last time but thought I would do it myself this time with the help of a mechanic mate (paid help). Thought I would get some advice before I talk to my mechanic mate so at least I would have a basic understanding of what should be done.

    Looked in the manual and saw you get get a piston kit (piston, rings, roller bearings) so that all makes sense. Have a few questions off the top of my head in no particular order.

    1) Does the gudgeon pin wear out and need replacing?
    2) How do I know what head gasket thickness to get or are gaskets cheap and I just get one of each thickness?
    3) What should be done to the bore? Do I just measure to see if it is in spec and leave if all good or do I hone/something else it anyway? What is honing?
    4) What other things should I check while apart. I was thinking clean carby and check reeds but I’m sure there is other stuff like power valve etc.
    5) Can you get an idea of how bottom end is going whilst having the top off?

    Before writing this I was thinking I could order the bits and pull the bike down once they arrived to minimise lost riding time. After riding I am thinking pull down first and then order to minimise cash wastage on wrong bits.

    Some other details. Changed original piston and rings at 70 hours. Now at 170 hours. Was thinking of using genuine bits like I did last time. Any reasons not to?

    I have changed a piston and rings once before in my old DT175 when I was a kid so I have at least seen the inside of an engine before. Obviously things are a little more different/advanced this time and I am also paying which puts things in a different light.

    Thanks again for the advice.

    #199335

    Greg
    Member

    Roy Menace did a excellent thread on his top end overhaul here somewhere. It maybe in the KTM section or in tech help, if you can’t find it let me know and I will track it down for you

    TB

    #199336

    ian
    Member

    just doing the same thing myself bundyroy , when i rang up my local dealer he asked me if my bike had a group 1 or group 2 piston which you wont know until you rip the head off as you have to replace with the same “group piston” will have my piston kit on thursday and will clean and pull the rest of the bike down tonight and tomorrow, the dealer said the kit comes with everything you nee for a top end rebuild piston , gudgeon , gudgeon clip ,headgasket etc so when i get it i will tell you exactly what you get, Cheers huskybloke

    #199337

    drew
    Member
    #199341

    Roy
    Member

    Thanks for the help and the lead on Menaces thread. Just looked it up and the scary part is I already posted in it a couple of times. Must be getting old.

    Would still like to know about honing and how to look for bottom end wear if it is possible without splitting the case.

    Thanks

    #199342

    Alex
    Member

    Just did mine a few weeks ago Roy.

    In answer to your questions:
    1) If your replacing the piston, replace the pin and little end roller bearing too. Note: You “typically” get the piston/gudgeon pin with a kit, you purchase the bearing separately. Double check this.
    2) You don’t know the thickness until your putting it all back together. There are no markings on the gaskets to tell you what they are. Measure it/them if you trust the last mechanic who did it (which is fine). If your paranoid you grab a combination of gaskets from the dealer and measure the X dimension with feeler gauges. If you go ahead with the paranoid approach, you will want some valuable tips from us to make sure you make no mistake.
    3) You can read about this on the ‘Net for hours. After much reading myself I decided on this approach: the liner on these bores are hard. F&&%&%g hard. You really have to metal on it with reckless abandon to damage it. I grabbed some wet and dry with some water and scratched the coating in nice 45-60 deg swipes. Down and up, all around. Avoiding the port edges where possible. No serious pressure either. Rinse and take a look in the light. I think I used 2×0 then 3×0 to finish. Many people use scotchbrite. The scratches in reality are so fine at best they break some of the varnish (good) but even then it may not even do that. Many people don’t do anything and just throw it back together.
    4) I was planning on cleaning PV bits on my second piston change. Look up what o-rings and gaskets are needed if ant all. May as well check reeds for open/chipped petals. Clean carbie with carbie cleaner and compressed air. Seal up (for water) and wire (for safety) your throttle cable.
    5) I wouldn’t worry about it. Hold the crank still and lift the conrod up and down to check for play. If you feel anything you would be lucky (or more to the point unlucky). Not side to side play, up and down only. Any excessive play would be from a fault or other unlikely problems. Report back for comment. Not enough hours in my opinion to worry about it.

    Stick with Genuine or if your keen actual Vertex branded (same thing). Take note of the numbers on top of the existing piston. If your bore lining is seriously scuffed from the piston cold seizing or other “events” then you decide is a I or II is necessary. If it had a I and bore lining looks real nice, I would buy another “I”. If bore looks poor, go a II. If the piston you pulled out is a II, go another II. Simple. Whatever you put in there will not cause damage. The difference between I and II is SFA.

    Menace’s write up is very detailed. Print it out.

    Additional: Give the unused gaskets back to the dealer for a refund as long as you don’t dirty or get oil all over them. Also when using o-rings to seal the head on the barrel, apply vaseline or petro jelly to the o-rings so they stay in the grooves. The vaso works it’s way out when it’s hot, no probs. Also don’t be concerned about rusty cylinder bolts. Always happens. Just apply some WD40 lightly to them when you put it all back together if you like.

    #199338

    pete
    Member

    I just did my 300 on Friday ( first time for me ) and found it quite easy, I read Menace’s report 10 times ( thanks Menace ) and hooked in.
    Brad at my local bike shop said don’t hone the cylinder.
    I got the piston and rings, gudgeon pin and clips, little roller bearing, and the gasket kit.
    The gasket kit has a heap of o rings and they are for your power valve and exhaust, and you head has 2 o rings instead of a gasket, but the gaskets you get are for your power valve covers and cylinder base.
    Another thing you can look at is your starter cause you have to pull it of anyway so might as well clean and grease it.
    Hope that helps, it really is easy.

    PTW

    #199343

    drew
    Member

    i believe that you do not hone the nicasil (spelling) bores.

    once you have it apart, and see what condition the coating is in.

    my 03 300 needed to be done after a seizure but needed the exhaust port welded they would have to have honed it, weather they honed it then coated it and honed it again i have no idea :unsure: . i didn’t get to see the barrel after it was coated, and i didn’t get to ask what they do when they re coat them.

    #199344

    alan
    Member

    whats this x dimension axle its not from the x files is it na just joking .have herd of it is it a flash name for different thickness base gaskets or haedgaskets for euro trash .have rebuilt heaps of two strokes and just used genuin gaskets not ktm s but

    #199359

    its a piece of piss boys, just get into it :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    reading back on my own thread, i noticed that it didnt really tell of anything too much but it is mighty encouraging :laugh: :laugh:
    beer will do that :laugh: :laugh:

    anyway, thats the key dudes. just have a crack.

    take heaps of pictures, from all angles…

    of everything you need to remove/replace/remember…..

    before, during and after touching anything…

    (just by doing this you will learn heaps, and may never have to look at the pics.)

    cover everything new in 2 stroke oil as you rebuild it…

    lube = love :laugh: :laugh:

    honestly, its a piece of puss, even Rocket could do it :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    good luck groovers ;)

    #199339

    Jim Drew
    Member

    Everything on here seems to be OK. But if it was me I would after removing the barrel, put some clean rag or such around the con-rod under the piston to prevent it from flopping around and keeping thing out of the crankcase like C clips and dirt etc. While you checking things check the little end bore in the con-rod(where the little roller bearing goes) with your finger to make shaw that there is no hard casing flaking. If the ring are not installed on the piston then there will be a mark the ring flange indexing up. If there is no scoring in the bore or any indication piston grabbing then it should be right to go. When assembling use a bit of little lube the piston, rings and gudgeon bearing.(2t oil) It wan’t hurt to check the ports in the barrel with you finger and if there are any burrs or sharp edges give them a light rub with some wet & dry.
    Goodluck.

    Jimbo

    #199360

    yeah, i had rag in it for all but the photos Jim.

    i agree with evrything else too.

    its all common sense really, if anything looks wrong,lipped,grooved,scratched etc, there is a problem.

    otherwise its all good :)

    #199362

    Alex
    Member

    Ah rocket … If these bikes were anywhere as finely engineered as whatever you have owned before, they would be double the price.

    Speaking of piston clips, I wrote up a quick abs dirty howto somewhere on here.

    #199367

    Roy
    Member

    What tools do I need to measure all these things I need to measure. I have vernier calipers but no feeler gauges. I’m guessing I need feeler gauges at the very least.

    Thanks for the help so far.

    #199369

    Alex
    Member

    Try and get some good feeler gauges. Wherever trade people get their tools from. Repco ones are ordinary, SCA and the like are rubbish. If you look after them and don’t use them to clean your fork seals they should last a lifetime. Don’t forget to borrow a torque wrench (optional but recommended) from a mate and get them to show you how it works. So you don’t break it….

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