Bike Shop / Dealers sales/service rant

[drewMember]

Okay,

i just got off the phone from Mal at Suto’s he’s doing his best to sort out a minor problem i’ve had with a buy form them.

while on hold the voice over dude mentioned they do suspension work i.e. tuning etc.

i asked him about setting up my 02 KTM 640, he asked my weight he too was taken aback i will have to ask TB wether his face looked like like > :blink: or :ohmy: or :huh: as he was at sutto’s at the time i was on the phone with mal :laugh:

. :laugh: :laugh:

—Here is my Name and Shame bitch section>>

>>now some of you know i traded my 640 on an 03 300 2T, from Boltons in Kynton.

i explained to them when i first looked at going to a 300 i wanted to cut down on my Rego costs= car approx $600-700 + the same for each bike i have, 1 road and 1 dirt/trail.

___ during summer i ride to the river to cool off and temper the intensity of my migraines :unsure: which is a 20 km black top commute each way, usually a 70 -100km round trip by the time i do a fire trail loop or 2.

by going to a 300 in NSW it is almost 1/2 the cost for Reg.

( i suppose some will say i should not be in what can be such an expensive sport as i’m on a disability support pension :blush: but i could not ride i may as well be a vegy in a home, forgotten about somewhere! )

the 300 was an awesome bit of gear. wheelie from 2nd to 4th and then for as long as you could balance/ where game :woohoo: i could never manage 5th though but my older Bro could

BUT after 3 years/ 21hrs and 1300kms the stinker seized on me about 8 kms from home :ohmy:

i called Boltons asap they said to bring it down and they would pull it apart and tell me why it failed. i said i could not afford them to do the work, Mr Bolton the owner said “we will look after you on the hourly rate and parts”. ( Yeah Right! :dry: )

i also emailed KTM HQ to tell them what had happened, using their form on the web page, it said to fill in some details which included your nearest KTM dealer which eas ABS in Bendigo, however i stated the bike in question was bought from Boltons in Kynton.

i had called the dealer i bought my original 640 from to get the prices to fix it myself to save some $$.

. the piston had grabbed the bore on the exhaust and helper? port and needed to be welded, machined and recoated. these prices are from memory and almost 3+yrs ago :blush: about $560 all up for the cylinder/ borefix $300 something for a genuine KTM slug, leaving me to cough up well over another $500 for labour and a few gaskets, gear box oil and odds and ends.

when i was picking up the repaired cylinder, piston from ABS the then head dealer / sales man said he had an interesting phone call from KTM AU HQ, and was abused for selling me the fated 300 :blink: and was told i should never been sold a 2smoker for that kind of commute distance etc.

now while boltons were “looking after me” in reassembling the bike, as Mr Bolton would not trust just anyone (even another reputable KTM shop ) to get the bore fixed and the piston to cylinder gap right, and he would have sent the cylinder to the UK to have it professionally re Nikosiled ( bla bla Blaaaa).

anyway they blamed the failure on me running stale fuel which had evaporated some of the fuel off leaving the mixture too rich causing the bike to run too lean ( COBullUshitGH )

i informed them i had mixed the fuel that morning before the ride, they said i had mixed it too rich then as the 1/4 of a cup they got out of the carby was too “rich looking” therefore i had mixed it too rich, they asked what ratio i was mixing it at, i told them 50:1 just like the book says!

they said well i dosen’t look like it to me and showed me some fuel in a coke bottle supposedly drained from my carby, i informed them that Could Not have Come from My bike as the oil i run was green and my mixed fuel looked almost High lighter/ fluro green, Not Yellow.

now once the bike was reassembled and ready to pickup i asked them “how long is it going to last this time?!?!”.

i was told they had moved the clip on the needle one position richer which would fix the problem.

i asked “so you can guarantee that this bike WILL NOT seize Again!?!? “.

“Oh no with the clip richer it will not seize again, now they have fixed it. it will just be a little doughy when riding around town or in slower riding”.

Yeah right “bit doughy”! the thing would not work under 1/2 throttle and was almost gutless compared to before.

i had spotted an 02 640 on the floor exactly like the the one i traded 3 yrs prior just in orange and black trim not the red and black from factory > possibly 03 plastics and seat cover?

i asked what deal they would do on trading the 300 on the 640, while he was doing the sums i had a closer look i reckoned it was the 640 i had traded, and was told “Nar could not be, this one come from S.A.”.

i tool it for a test ride and had decided i was taking it home with me. although i told them it did not seem to have the punch down low like the 02 640 i had traded, to which someone in the background sniggered, i thought maybe but dismissed it as unrelated to our conversation.

on getting home i rang ABS to ask if they still had the paperwork from the original 640 sale. they confirmed that the 640 i brought home was in fact my original 640. by now i was :angry: and Boltons were lucky i don’t live local :angry:

i rang Boltons and spoke to the sales manager that dealt with the sale and repair all the way through= Fred (last name removed by admin), i now know the other dealers call him F.O.S.

now back to the afore mentioned conversation with Mal, he said that i should Never been sold a 2smoker, and he was Surprised it the 300 smoker had lasted as long as it did :huh:

i think that’s it for now :dry: , end of rant, ( few wipes sweat from brow ), until i find/ think of something else/ more to bitch about :unsure:

[Anonymous]

I’m confused, do you have a 300 now or the 640? What is your gripe exactly though? The fact you bought a bike you wanted but another local dealer said you shouldn’t have been sold it? The fact that you bought a bike that you had previously owned? Or the fact that the 300 broke and it cost you loads of money….all of the above? :laugh:

Sorry it’s just a bit hard to understand.

I bought my 450 from Fred at Boltons, he seemed alright with me, not that that really means much.

[drewMember]

hmm i’ll try to clarify:

bought the 640 Feb. 02,

traded it on the 03 300 Dec. 03

rode the 300 until late 05 early 06 :blush: i don’t have the paper work at hand to be 100% exact.

cost to fix the 300,

then when fixed, swapped it back for my original 640 that i traded on the 300.

the other dealer =ABS was told by KTM Aust. HQ that i should never been sold a smoker in the first place.

now confirmed by Mal at Sutto’s. that i should not have been sold a 2T.

My gripe is the underhanded “Blame game” from Boltons ( taking advantage of my lack of knowledge/ experience with 2T engine ) when they too were contacted by KTM HQ as well, re: my email to the HQ concerning my 300 failure.

and most of all costing me money, and that if they cared about the customer’s needs and advising them the Correct bike to suit, NOT just Racking up sales and $$$$!!!!

F.O.S. Butterworth only informed me AFTER the failure that you are supposed to hold a percentage of throttle while descending hills so as to supply the engine with sufficient fuel and lube so as to prevent the likelihood of a lean out failure.

Menace has got close enough to or over 90 hrs on his bike without any mechanical drama. because it’s more suited to his Needs and style of terrain ridden in.

[GregMember]

Need to understand Mal has only offered an opinion XY, it is his opinion is all.

TB

[Anonymous]

I know you’re a bigger bloke but a 300 shouldn’t blow up because you’re riding it. It should also be okay on the road if not held flat out for 30Km’s.

As far being told about holding the throttle open on downhills I don’t think many (if any)dealers tell you that and to slate a dealer for that isn’t really fair. Nobody told me :huh:

If KTM Australia have said you’re not suited to that bike and a bike shop has still pushed it your way as you describe then that’s not great.

Cheers for clearing it up though, I understand where you are coming from now

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Not sure that I agree about not riding 2T on the blacktop, I had RZ350 did tens of thousands of Kays on the road, without engine dramas, my RZ500s and rz640s the same never a siezure due to roadriding, only tuning stupidity ( :blush: ), and both my KTM300 and YZ250 do blacktop without a drama, although on the trailbikes I run at anywhere between 25-32;1 fuel oil ratio and on long downhill sections “blip” the throttle or hit the killswitch and fullthrottle at same time, never had an issue like you’re describing young XY.

Maybe someone shoulda given a few hints when selling you the smoker.

[drewMember]

thanks TB, i understand that it’s his opinion,

but when you get two or more of the same opinion, from unrelated people that have never met, you have to think there may be something to it.

Mr B please correct me but the RZ’s are oil injected/self mixing, therefore oiling the needed amount even when you are coasting thin the throttle off/closed.

the same with my Bro’s honda CRM 250 AR, oil injected, he has had 10 000+kms of trouble free riding
8 000+ after he put the Mugen power up kit on it. he only just put a new piston and rings in it.

he dose not baby his bike nor dose he thrash it.

and the blokes at Boltons told me that mixing the fuel richer like you Mr B , that the bike would have done the same anyway. as it would be too “thick” for want of a better word, it would not draw enough fuel through and thus run lean anyway. = failure.

but now through some of your informative posts that if it had have been jetted appropriately for the richer mix i may still have the bike???

as for a young XY :dry: naive,uneducated, ill informed? Most definitely yes!

[Bruce CurtisMember]

xy-transit wrote:

Quote:

thanks TB, i understand that it’s his opinion,

but when you get two or more of the same opinion, from unrelated people that have never met, you have to think there may be something to it.

Mr B please correct me but the RZ’s are oil injected/self mixing, therefore oiling the needed amount even when you are coasting thin the throttle off/closed.

the same with my Bro’s honda CRM 250 AR, oil injected, he has had 10 000+kms of trouble free riding
8 000+ after he put the Mugen power up kit on it. he only just put a new piston and rings in it.

he dose not baby his bike nor dose he thrash it.

and the blokes at Boltons told me that mixing the fuel richer like you Mr B , that the bike would have done the same anyway. as it would be too “thick” for want of a better word, it would not draw enough fuel through and thus run lean anyway. = failure.

but now through some of your informative posts that if it had have been jetted appropriately for the richer mix i may still have the bike???

as for a young XY :dry: naive,uneducated, ill informed? Most definitely yes!

Young XY you are indeed correct on the RZs et al:, but topend seizure is rarely from lack of oil, it is more from hotspots, as for Boltons telling you the mixture would be too “thick” I’m afraid it appears from propogating that “idea” they suffer from that condition themselves.

An increase from 50:1 to 25:1 is a mere 2% of liquid by volume, sorry their explanantion would have had me ROTFL, and pointing out that their IQ was similar to the octane rating of standard petrol, besides that’s why they make alternative jetting.

BC

[GregMember]

Its not long ago that two strokes won all the major long distance races where they got held wide open for extended periods ie: Finke, Hattah, Baja etc to name a few. It wont matter a big rats rectum if it runs 50 to 1 or 25 to 1 if its not jetted correctly. If its jetted to lean it wont matter what oil mixture you run. If its sucking air between the carburettor and the cylinder head again wont matter what mixture you run.

If it is jetted to hold it wide open you can hold it wide open its simple and fact.

TB

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

Its not long ago that two strokes won all the major long distance races where they got held wide open for extended periods ie: Finke, Hattah, Baja etc to name a few. It wont matter a big rats rectum if it runs 50 to 1 or 25 to 1 if its not jetted correctly. If its jetted to lean it wont matter what oil mixture you run. If its sucking air between the carburettor and the cylinder head again wont matter what mixture you run.

If it is jetted to hold it wide open you can hold it wide open its simple and fact.

TB

herein lays the answer, especially since they should changed the main rather than lifted the needle, sure they weren’t butchers masquerading as mechanics?

Sorry XY I hate charletans that take advantage of my fellow man this way.

[drewMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

An increase from 50:1 to 25:1 is a mere 2% of liquid by volume, sorry their explanantion would have had me ROTFL, and pointing out that their IQ was similar to the octane rating of standard petrol, besides that’s why they make alternative jetting.

BC

yes well now, after some time and Q?’s to those in the know i too would point out their seeming lack of knowledge.

but when you’re naive and gullible you take the word of someone that is “supposed ” to be well informed and up to date with all things they sell and service.

you tend to believe what they say as indeed correct and trustworthy.

and even the local Honda dealer too holds that if you mix fuel richer it will run the bike leaner as it cannot draw sufficient amounts of fuel through the jets.

however he did say that a lean out failure most commonly results in a hole being burnt in the piston not a seizure.

is that the most likely scenario? or not for a too lean jetting

what is the most common failure in 2t’s and what is the cause?

as i’m still interested in maybe one day going back to a 2T but i do not want to go through the same thing all over again :unsure:

[Bruce CurtisMember]

the single most catasphrophic 2T issue is a bottom end failure, most of the time caused by a poor maintenance schedule or poor lubrication, or less common poor engine rebuilding technique.

Lean out usually happens at sustained high revs after the jetting has been incorrectly guauged, holes in piston is simple and pure heat due to mostly not enough fuel to cool the chamber, but usually one must ignore many symptoms to get to this stae

[dennis da menaceMember]

xy-transit wrote:

Quote:

and even the local Honda dealer too holds that if you mix fuel richer it will run the bike leaner as it cannot draw sufficient amounts of fuel through the jets.

that is horseshit!!!

so he reckons the viscosity of the fuel thickens with too much oil….. and wont get through the jets….WTF!!
so if @ 50:1 you mix 200ml to 10 litres,
@ 25:1 you mix 400ml to 10 litres.

there is no difference in viscosity…or very minimal.

i hate bike shops……generically

[JohnMember]

Viscosity of Liquids and Gases

Liquids Viscosity
(Poise)
Acetone 0.0032
Alcohol(ethyl) 0.012
Blood (whole) 0.04
Blood plasma 0.015
Gasoline 0.006
Glycerine 14.9
Mercury 0.016
Oil (light) 1.1
Oil (heavy) 6.6
Water 0.01

Viscosity has the SI units Pascal seconds (Pa s) which is called the Poiseuille. More commonly used is the dyne sec/cm2 which is called Poise. One Pa s is 10 Poise. The Poise is used in the table because of its more common usage. Data from Gustafson. These viscosities are at 20°C except for the blood and blood plasma which are at body temperature, 37°C, and for steam which is at 100°C.

Hope this helps cause it means jack s*#t to me.

[dennis da menaceMember]

now i get it its all in the Poise….

so thats why dolphins are so fast, there have a low porpoise level :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

i crack myself up

[Author]

Posts