Engine Ice

[DeanMember]

Roy Im no expert but in layman terms I can offer the following Presumptions :unsure:

Higher output impellers circulate the coolant faster so it has more of a chance to be at the radiators more often (if you get my drift )

impeller design is also critical a lot of oem impellers tend to aerate the coolant with a net negative result in its primary heat transfer ability (smaller higher reving engines Ie Kato 65’s etc appear to be the worst offenders )

rerouting the coolant flow with the use of “Y” sections increases the cooling effect (dont ask me to explain this in depth :unsure: just going off what the esteemed cooling Guru has told me

the use of engine ice or the stuff that Sutto’s recommends does raise the boiling point but it also has a far superior wetting effect on the cylinder lining so heat transfer occurs more readily

anyway thats my take on it hope it helps somewhat

Ollie

[RoyMember]

Thanks ollie. What is a “Y” section. I know you said don’t ask but not knowing is worse than not asking.

[DeanMember]

Bundyroy wrote:

Thanks ollie. What is a “Y” section. I know you said don’t ask but not knowing is worse than not asking.

a “y” section is simply a connection that splits the water flow into two seperate paths

Ollie

[Bruce CurtisMember]

I would love to answer with the down and dirty tech stuff but in reality I am not at liberty to as it is someones elses intelectual property.

And that I respect.

[Michael FittlerMember]

Hey guys,

You seem to be asking a lot of questions about radiators and cooling system theory therefore I thought you may be interested in the information below from PWR Performance Products who specialise in the manufacture of complete radiators and cores for race, street, drag or OEM replacement applications within the automotive industry.

PWR Bike Radiators
PWR Performance Products specialise in, and manufacture custom aluminum off-road motorcycle radiators for the motorcycle market place. Our constant on track testing environment with teams like RED BULL KTM, MOTOWORLD SUZUKI, CDR NOKIA YAMAHA, MOTOREX KTM RACING TEAM, WHALES KAWASAKI RACING and TEAM SHIFT MOTUL SUZUKI ensures that every customer receives the latest in R&D development and race proven performance technology. PWR radiators are manufactured by hand from our State of art facilities on the Gold Coast.

Please refer to their website links below:

http://www.pwr.com.au/#/view=products/st=Motorcycle/sb=KTM/

http://www.pwr.com.au/#/view=products/st=Motorcycle/sb=Husaberg/

http://www.pwr.com.au/#/view=products/s=rs/p=faq/

I this info helps regards Mick.

[BillMember]

If you are wanting to do some testing and some mod to cooling systems i can help you do it but it will cost some (RUM) PM if you need some help:)

[Matt BakerMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

LC4skin wrote:

Krusty wrote:

So why is it these high tech machines are over heating in the first place? could it be they are not designed for tight gnarly single track? Just curious as it seems odd to me that a 14,000+ machine would overheat.. Is the manufacturer really designing for a race type situation like a4d, safari etc?

Cheers…

There is no problem with the bikes or radiator design the rider just has to go faster in the tight stuff (just like an enduro racer would) creating more ariflow, they are after all enduro race machines not trail bikes

I will beg to differ LC4, they are not fit for purpose in this regard, as the race ones used in the extreme enduros have modded cooling systems for just this reason, and they are sold with ADR compliance, so obviously not closed course comp only…

I realise the extreme enduro guys need modified cooling systems, but for racing in the A4DE and Off road series (normal enduros) the standard cooling system should be fine.

[DamienMember]

I have ridden with other Bergs, and having owned that berg, I find they all get hot, even the KTM’s on the same trails. I found the biggest issue seemed to be if you do tight single and then stop dead. I know it sounds odd, but so often people stop right after a tough tight spot. Most guys I ride with do a tough bit of single then cruise some firetrail’s to cool the rider and the bike, catch your breath then dive into more single. I find if I am burning up and need air flow so does the bike, so I keep rolling for a minute and feel a million bucks.

Having said that I had it overheat one weekend a few times, only one weekend in around 1000 K’s of riding, and valley force replaced what was a faulty pump impeller (Key way let go faulty part form factory eventually let go slowing flow right down), so now theres definitely no pump, flow, or radiator issue now or any time soon.

The KTM and Berg 4Ts just lack water volume, so in really slow stuff turning the bike off straight after means the head will overheat the water in the jacket.

Thats why heaps of berg and KTM guys on DBW use Engine Ice. Its that temperature spike when stopping that biol’s it. The bike when running in 99% of cases is not overheating, you keep moving they don’t boil, so getting better coolant will get over that short stress point when the water stops flowing across a full temperature cylinder. There a few threads running now with guys exploring this on Berg and KTM’s with some going the fan. I never liked the idea of the fan on a berg as when your stopped it chews the battery up, and there aint no kick starter…….unless they turn off when the motor is off, which then just leads to a more stable coolant being needed to hang in there for the few minutes until the barrel cools.

[KTM05Member]

Hi All – An interesting discussion. I have been riding the KTM 300 models for over 12 years now and never had a boiling problem. Used to enduro race them at the national and international level as well. They do boil occasionally but never a “ride stopping” problem. Others that I ride with boil their bikes regularly but then there always seems to be a reason why…..
The usual setups that cause boiling are (not in any order of relevance)
– Restrictive radiator protector
– Too lean jetting (usually pilot & needle)
– New motor still running in (tighter tolerances cause more heat)
– Low grade coolant (the better quality coolants will raise the boiling point)
– Over filling (coolant should be just above the internal core when cool)

I recently went over to Africa to support 15 international riders entered in the World Extreme Enduro championships. They were all on Husaberg & KTM 300’s. This race is run over 3 days in very extreme conditions and none of the entrants had to withdraw due to overheating (Some bodies overheated though). The setups we did were – A steel radiator brace (adds no restriction to the airflow), a steel pipe guard (to allow good airflow past the pipe and engine), main & needle jet changes for the conditions, factory coolant and added a KTM thermostatic fan. No problems.

Hope that helps :dry:

[Adrian LeeMember]

Ok i have drained and flushed the system and are now running the engine ice.

Hoping to get out this weekend and hit the single that is giving me trouble.

[JoeMember]

I have been reading with keen intrest & thought I would put my 2 cents worth.
I have owned from new a 2007 ktm 525 (9000ks) & currently have a 2009 ktm 530 with12000+k & 250+hrs. I havent had a boiling problem yet even running on stockton beach dunes in mid summer 35+deg.
I think KTM05 has the right idea but I’ll add a couple of things & put them in the order I think is important.

1 Install a genuine ktm fan with thermostate
2 Get it jetted correctly ( they are way to lean from new)
3 Do not install radiator gaurds that restrict air flow. I don’t use radiator gaurds at all ,however my radiators are both very twisted/bent but don’t leak.
4 Do not over fill, just 10 mm above the fins.Overwise when the coolant gets hot it expands,drips down the tube onto the header pipe & steams.
5 If I stop for more than 20 seconds I switch the motor off.(when standng still there is no air flow)
6 Remember these motors are designed to rev 10000+ rpm. If you are lugging around 5-6000 rpm the water pump isn’t flowing as much. That’s just my theory as I like to hear the motor scream.
7 Be aware how much you are slipping the clutch as this generates a lot of heat.Even with the seperate oil chambers it can still overheat the oil witch in turn overheats the motor.
8 Keep the oil topped up in tne motor.

Like I said just my 2 cents worth.

Tryhard

[MalMember]

aido wrote:

Ok i have drained and flushed the system and are now running the engine ice.

Hoping to get out this weekend and hit the single that is giving me trouble.

Good luck Aido. Give it hell mate and have fun. :woohoo:

There’s some good info and advice on this thread. Thanks guys.

[Adrian GaleMember]

aido wrote:

Ok i have drained and flushed the system and are now running the engine ice.

Hoping to get out this weekend and hit the single that is giving me trouble.

Hi Aido,

I have been reading this report with interest. How did your Engine Ice perform?
Cheers

[Adrian LeeMember]

I havnt had a decent go at trying it yet.
First ride out with it the injector shit itself.
next ride out the clutch shit itself.
I have just picked it up so hopefully will get out on the weekend.

[Adrian GaleMember]

That bites mate. Hope all is sorted now and you can enjoy your beast. 👿
Cheers

[Author]

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