food for thought…

[dennis da menaceMember]

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fastbikes.se%2Findex.php%2Fnyheter%2Fmotorcyklar%2F2856-tvataktare-fran-husaberg-pa-gang&sl=sv&tl=en

:ohmy: a 370cc, EFI, chamberless 2 stroke, running a 70 degree angled slug!! :ohmy:

i cant wait for the future of 2 bangers :laugh: :laugh:

[Adrian SnowdenMember]

is it’s slug angled to the left or right?

[drewMember]

Bring it on!!!!

i think GG do a 270cc 2T EFI trials bike, it has a 4T sizes pipe.

but it’s still has the upright cylinder.

damn you Menace….. i’m just going through the process of getting K8ii’s suspension sorted…… and you lob this on me.

but it’ll be a long time before i can afford one, so i’ll ask for 1st offer on your’s when you sell it 2nd hand : laugh:

that is if i’m still able to ride by then :pinch: :cheer: :silly:

and Snowy.. it has to be the right. cos Berg are heading in the Right direction :S 👿

[alanMember]

it won t happen posti bikes are all four strokes :laugh:

[dennis da menaceMember]

snowy09 wrote:

is it’s slug angled to the left or right?

depends on the temperature, elevation and also the undercarriage design Snowy :laugh:

i remember Champo talking about these chamberless 2 bangers ages ago, and yeah, i dont remember really seeing an exp. chamber when watching the trials dudes.

you get first dibs Drew if i havent killed it or myself by then :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

im hanging for FI 2T’s….. with an oil tank and no more premix…..

:whistle: i wait with patience :laugh:

[drewMember]

Wasn’t GG, it’s an Ossa TR 280i

i got it wrong, it was an Ossa trials bike i saw not a GG :blush:

[Scott SouthwellMember]

If you read you will see that article is nearly a year old, from may 2010, talking about 2011 model Bergs. Well the 2011 Bergs were released and they were just rebadged old school KTM’s 2T’s.

Don’t blow ya load just yet, leave that until it actually happens and not just online rumors.

[dennis da menaceMember]

Scotty wrote:

If you read you will see that article is nearly a year old, from may 2010, talking about 2011 model Bergs. Well the 2011 Bergs were released and they were just rebadged old school KTM’s 2T’s.

Don’t blow ya load just yet, leave that until it actually happens and not just online rumors.

yeah i know Scotty…

but its good to dream of whats to come

[GregMember]

With the fuel injection technology being used in two stroke out boards now you would think it shouldn’t be far away. Two stroke outboards smash emission laws now which was the stalling point with two strokes outboards around the world in the past

TB

[peteMember]

We are waiting and waiting and waiting but if they banned 2stroke dirtbikes tomorrow because of emissions it wouldn’t take long and a fuel injected one would hit the shop floors.

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Reality is the smaller players at this stage have no real pressing need given the global sales climate to spend heaps on R&D for this YET.
My understanding is while DI does work, and it works on outboards and skiddos, it is not as good in the world of constant on/off, partial throttle requirements of a dirtbike, we spend so little time at anything remotely resembling a constant venturi signal, the delivery needs are so complex that while it can be done, the money needed is prohibitive.

The boyeson designed trapping valve will also be obselete when the boffins come out with the injected 2T dirtbike engine… put simply, there will be no overlap and unburnt mixture escaping, however if this happens I do wonder if a pressurised air system will be necessary as well?

a large bore low revving injected 2T with oodles of torque and lightweight…MMmmmm

[dennis da menaceMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Reality is the smaller players at this stage have no real pressing need given the global sales climate to spend heaps on R&D for this YET.
My understanding is while DI does work, and it works on outboards and skiddos, it is not as good in the world of constant on/off, partial throttle requirements of a dirtbike, we spend so little time at anything remotely resembling a constant venturi signal, the delivery needs are so complex that while it can be done, the money needed is prohibitive.

The boyeson designed trapping valve will also be obselete when the boffins come out with the injected 2T dirtbike engine… put simply, there will be no overlap and unburnt mixture escaping, however if this happens I do wonder if a pressurised air system will be necessary as well?

a large bore low revving injected 2T with oodles of torque and lightweight…MMmmmm

thats why i love ya Brucee :laugh: :laugh:

how have you been you old diamond;)

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Dennis the Obviously Monikered me ole KTM flogging, back breaking, other person electrocuting, Victorian Brother from another Mother…
same goes…

Me good as gold, having fun on the big Vee, haven’t started the warlock in 3 months, but due to be fired up this weekend for a scoot with the boy wonder and get my arse handed to me again by a ten year old….:blush:

and hows the world of Menace treating you?

Anyway did a lot of reading last night on high pressure DI for 2T dirtbikes, yes it can be done, and yes some roadbikes have been retrofitted sucessfully in prototype.. however even a roadbike is a far different world to a dirtbike, herein lays the issue, the mapping and sensor relationship alone for a 2T dirtbike is a big job for R&D…..
BUT within a few years it will be so, I liken it to the 4T inj evolution, mid-eighties GPZ11 had FI, yet when did it finally arrive on dirtbikes? over 20 years later no less.
like the man says, when the market (Us) start demanding stuff, then and only then will the manufacturers listen, if we don’t they will push us down the path THEY want us to head for the best return on their investment, which at the moment is high maintenance, return business 4Ts. I liken the new Jap 4Ts to the good old cheap printer deals, buy the printer for next to nothing, they make the dollars out of the consumables…..

If we had a low revving (say 9k rpm redline) large bore 2T with a wet sump and High pressure DI and air inj, variable intake timing and ign, there would be a huge rush to this trpe of powerplant, same power for less CCs, far less fuel usage, no need for big tanks, redesign of bike styling more suited to ergos and handling, lighter weith motors, so you can put weight where it may be needed, the possibilities are myraid and mind boggling…..

Just hope we are still of an age to ride them…

[GregMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

like the man says, when the market (Us) start demanding stuff, then and only then will the manufacturers listen, if we don’t they will push us down the path THEY want us to head for the best return on their investment, which at the moment is high maintenance, return business 4Ts. I liken the new Jap 4Ts to the good old cheap printer deals, buy the printer for next to nothing, they make the dollars out of the consumables…..

I agree with everything you wrote Bruce 100%, but I ask you this question if you were in their business of making bikes and making money (cause without making money you dont make bikes ) wouldnt you and I be doing the same? Because bottom line they are in business and smart business is controling the market and making a demand and then supplying the demand.

They made the YZ400 and WR400 the put high profile riders on them in the biggest stage where the world was watching and kicked arse, the market lapped it up and it started with that didnt it? Everybody wanted what won on Sunday and they wanted it on Monday thus created the demand. KTM very much uses that marketing tool with the Tady’s, Knights etc, its good business.

I hope the two stroke comes back bigger than ever, I am considering still buying a smoker for the single trail side of my riding. What will happen and when, who knows :blink:

TB

[Bruce CurtisMember]

I dunno if i could say I would do so TB, about making short term profit from consumables I almost reckon if i had influence in a large M/Cycle manufacturer I would be pushing MY own barrow, which just so happens to on many levels to make good long term business sense.

I reckon KTM will be the first to bring one out that is workable, some others may bring out half-arsed versions like Bi-moto did with the V-due, but KTM will have theirs well tested before release.

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