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Great ideas Crash, will do those this weekend, better than whinging karma for that mate
gimmie a I DO!
hit the nail mate
the too man system worked wonders on sat after the flat tyre!
no pun to the dude with the flat , though speek up if in doubt!
I WOULD , im a pre rider and havent had to change a flat
(maybe the 300 bucks bike prep before obt rides?)
though admit ive been back on 2 wheels only 18 mths now and only hope for some guidence:blink: (thumbs up to tb)
nothing wrong with waiting as long as you dont say ‘im right’
when you honistly aintmaybe masking tape on helmet with your site name to illeiviate the who
and make this deal alot more social on the day-wasnt able to make the whole day though WASNT discouraged by the mishaps……..SHIT HAPPENS!
be boys,not bitches
if so pm moto he will hook ya up 2 a good bitch sight …..then F%^&k off and dont ride,to put it blunt:ohmy:
Aaroncilds idea of your username on your helmet, even in masking tape is a good idea, good thinking
I try using only usernames as its to hard learning everything elseTB
Trailboss wrote:
Quote:Aaroncilds idea of your username on your helmet, even in masking tape is a good idea, good thinking I try using only usernames as its to hard learning everything else
TB
Mate works.
Call them mate until you hear someone call them a name, worked for me for years and so far so good.
But on big rides with newbies then some form of ID is a good idea
Gaz
gco0307 wrote:
Quote:The system that I tend to work with when on group rides is similar and has so far proven to work well, but it does depend on the size of the ride.Our general system is based on the need to ensure that at each and every stop point (slow corner, intersections etc) the first rider stops until the second rider acknowledges the turn. The second rider then stops to await the following rider while the first rider continues. Once the third rider appears and acknowledges the second rider takes off to continue and so on.
Basically, it is designed so that the faster riders are always at the front and therefore do not pressure slower riders nearer the back (either inadvertently or deliberately to speed up) which can be a problem on road rides (egos mean ‘look at me’). This system does generally work best with groups where the skill levels are known but works just as well at identifyingt the faster riders and rearranging the order.
Basically, it simply means that the rider needs to always know who is behind them ad they must stop and not move until the other rider acknowledges that they understand the next direction.
It is also a system that can work when moving (well at least on the roads I ride) where visibility can allow a rider to have good sight behind them. Whilst they can see the rider they know that all is well, if they lose sight of the rider in an area of good visibility they may want to back off to ensure that following rider is ok.
It has worked well for rides I have been on so far but we do tend to know each other well, although it has been very successful with newbies to us as well (we let the bastards go as they were to qquick for us but they always slowed and waited).
Basically to simplify it.
You have riders A, B, C, D etc.
Rider A is the ride leader and arrives at a stop point first. Rider A waits until Rider B acknowledges that they recognise the future direction of the ride before Rider A continues while Rider B stops. Rider B then waits until Rider C turns up, acknowledges that they know the direction before Rider B continues whilst Rider C then stops (effectively each topped rider becomes a corner marker). Like wise then for Rider C waiting for Rider D and so on.
Hope iot makes sense.
Gaz
Gaz, Hi Mate please dont take this the wrong way but your system only really works if all riders know each other and it has a drama with a few fundamentals of group responsibility and mate ship….let me explain,
The rotating corner man system has lots of benefits for all, the whole idea of the thing is to show the whole pack where to go so no rider gets lost or to also show the pack where a danger may exsisit , with the fixed order system like you use it has the problems of the slower guys will always be sucking the dust of the guy in front, who he thinks he should not pass in case of upsetting the order of things, how are you supposed to learn if you get stuck in the same order all the time.
With the rotating system the faster guys will always find them selves on the corner to point the way for the whole pack to go and then have the challenge of getting through them again.
This sounds dangerous and it certainly can be, but this is where the respect part comes in, as the faster rider is usually more skilled, it is easy for them to take the harder line and pass safely where they can and this is how it should happen, the other benefit of this is the slower rider gets a glimpse first hand of how it can be done, this would not be possible with the fixed order system. Also the slower guys will never make it to the front and therefore never stop, they will soon become better riders from a conditioning point of view real quick with less stops.
Another problem is misinterpretation of the way to go, with the corner system you cannot mistake where to go, there is a guy there pointing, but the other way if you have two close tracks and the rider leaving gets a little antsy, see’s old matey coming through the trees and leaves a little early and then the wind blows the dust across to the other track and the rider arriving thinks we are going where the dust is, you now have the group split in two and that leads to a head on….been there…..done that, not good, the rotating system with a dedicated sweep is the predominantly used system worldwide and for good reasons of safety and continuity of ride pace.As I said Mate don’t take it the wrong way, most rides will find a natural order anyway but with groups of more than 6 or 8 a corner system is fairest and safest to all:)
crash wrote:
Quote:(or am I thinking too much?)After some bigger rides lately and the brilliant Wauchope ride last week, I thought we could add a couple of refinements to our cornerman system!
With the larger (+10 groups), I think the 2 man system is great. Flows well.
#1 – At the start of a larger ride – each rider should visually “buddy” up with someone else. Then, each time the whole group stops – you “sight” your buddy (I don’t mean you ride with him/ her, just sight them on a mass stop!) This would narrow down the search required for a rider that may have an off on a trail that may be unseen by anyone else – such as down an embankment etc!
#2 – When we have an incident that takes an extended time to address, where quite a few riders are stopped, if a few skilled blokes/ blokettes help rectify the problem, such as a drowned bike, flat tyres etc – a non involved rider should be sent ahead to tell each cornerman, and eventually the leader, what is going on and why there is a hold up! This alleviates any frustration or worry about what may be happening down the back of the “moto conga-line”
Whad’ya reckon!
Crash
Choice thinking Crash
Refinement #1 all good top marks to ya and I am throwing a Karma at you:)Refinement #2 I dont know if I would put the riders from the pack into the position of going through the pack up to the front as a messenger because he himself may not know the terrain well and might struggle to get there.
As a suggestion,
A way that I use when the numbers go past 15ish is to have 2 sweeps and the function of the second sweep is to do just what you are saying, going up front and getting the pack all back together because of a drama of one sort or another, and it saves everyone sitting on a corner for a boring 35 mins while a Tyre gets changed.
The other benefit of having two sweeps is when there is a treacherous section that more than a few may need help it is good to spread that “help” load through a couple of guys, I was sweeping for a group once and when I had ridden the 7th bike up a little 10 meter slippery incline I wished I was not the only sweep let me tell you.Other than a little refinement of your refinement I like the way to think:)
Karma is a Coming
Quote:Ktmrat wrote:
Gaz, Hi Mate please dont take this the wrong way but your system only really works if all riders know each other and it has a drama with a few fundamentals of group responsibility and mate ship….let me explain,
The rotating corner man system has lots of benefits for all, the whole idea of the thing is to show the whole pack where to go so no rider gets lost or to also show the pack where a danger may exsisit , with the fixed order system like you use it has the problems of the slower guys will always be sucking the dust of the guy in front, who he thinks he should not pass in case of upsetting the order of things, how are you supposed to learn if you get stuck in the same order all the time.
With the rotating system the faster guys will always find them selves on the corner to point the way for the whole pack to go and then have the challenge of getting through them again.
This sounds dangerous and it certainly can be, but this is where the respect part comes in, as the faster rider is usually more skilled, it is easy for them to take the harder line and pass safely where they can and this is how it should happen, the other benefit of this is the slower rider gets a glimpse first hand of how it can be done, this would not be possible with the fixed order system. Also the slower guys will never make it to the front and therefore never stop, they will soon become better riders from a conditioning point of view real quick with less stops.
Another problem is misinterpretation of the way to go, with the corner system you cannot mistake where to go, there is a guy there pointing, but the other way if you have two close tracks and the rider leaving gets a little antsy, see’s old matey coming through the trees and leaves a little early and then the wind blows the dust across to the other track and the rider arriving thinks we are going where the dust is, you now have the group split in two and that leads to a head on….been there…..done that, not good, the rotating system with a dedicated sweep is the predominantly used system worldwide and for good reasons of safety and continuity of ride pace.As I said Mate don’t take it the wrong way, most rides will find a natural order anyway but with groups of more than 6 or 8 a corner system is fairest and safest to all:)
No offence taken and as you said the system I threw in does realistically work best in a group where riders know each other’s abilities, likes and dislikes.
It is based on a road riding system as that is our backgrounds and is designed to remove pressure on the back markers to speed up as often occurs on road rides by ensuring that the faster riders and/or larger egos are at the front. It is not uncommon on a road ride using the corner marker system suggested earlier that you will encounter problems as the faster rider tries to make their way back through the pack (so to speak) to go at their pace. That behaviour in itself may not be a factor on dirt rides and in my very limited experience has not occurred, but then I also tend to ride with known people (due to circumstances).
It is not a large group system nor a system for internet forum rides as there is always the unknown factor of rider abilities and often not all will know the track, but it does work in a known group. It would also likely not be the solution for single track nor gnarly stuff as that tends to break groups up, although where we do come across some danger we do warn, just that we don’t often come across it on the firetrails we ride.
Your point with regards to stops could well be correct but we have a system that allows a minimum time for the stop from when the last rider arrives. Again this is based on the road system as it is all to common on road rides (I assume some dirt rides are the same) where the fast rider will get to a stop point, have a rest and want to take off again. They may have had a 5 or 10 minute rest but the last rider in may only have rested for 2 or so minutes. Eventually this multiplied and often the last rider in became to fatigued which can and often did result in accident (not had one accident or lost a rider on any rides with the above system). Thus when we ride we implement the minimum rest from last rider arrival. But it is a valid concern on all rides.
The system I suggested was formed after many issues with the standard corner man system suggested earlier, but again this was always on road rides. We did have situations where the faster or egotistical riders did cause anxiety as they carved through the pack or generally rode like absolute tools. We also had occasions where the corner man decided not to wait as the group was to slow for them or the roads to good.
Obviously from teh feedback in this thread the corner man system works better for a dirt ride environment and from what I have noticed with my interactions is that it is based heavily on respect and concern for the fellow riders.
Garry
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