KTM Engine/Gearbox Oil?

[GregMember]

If I had an automatic transmission I would run automatic transmission oil, makes sense to me as a person in the top end of the mechanical game.

Cheap oil and change more often well, if you have seen Dyno runs and see how much a current 450 four stroke engine loses horsepower wise when it heats up and can understand the demands and pressures placed on rockers cams etc guys how could a cheap oil that can suffer the same heat in the first 30 kms of an given ride offer the same protection as good quality oil?

I use Motul 5100 10w50 and change it around 500kms or after a big weekend with Chicken it maybe 1000kms, its quality oil and can do the 1000 kms standing on its head. Temperature is the big killer for oil breakdown.

TB

[DeanMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

If I had an automatic transmission I would run automatic transmission oil, makes sense to me as a person in the top end of the mechanical game.

Cheap oil and change more often well, if you have seen Dyno runs and see how much a current 450 four stroke engine loses horsepower wise when it heats up and can understand the demands and pressures placed on rockers cams etc guys how could a cheap oil that can suffer the same heat in the first 30 kms of an given ride offer the same protection as good quality oil?

I use Motul 5100 10w50 and change it around 500kms or after a big weekend with Chicken it maybe 1000kms, its quality oil and can do the 1000 kms standing on its head. Temperature is the big killer for oil breakdown.

TB

Which begs the question”why dont more bike run external Oil coolers”:unsure:

Ollie

[DavidMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

If I had an automatic transmission I would run automatic transmission oil, makes sense to me as a person in the top end of the mechanical game.

Cheap oil and change more often well, if you have seen Dyno runs and see how much a current 450 four stroke engine loses horsepower wise when it heats up and can understand the demands and pressures placed on rockers cams etc guys how could a cheap oil that can suffer the same heat in the first 30 kms of an given ride offer the same protection as good quality oil?

I use Motul 5100 10w50 and change it around 500kms or after a big weekend with Chicken it maybe 1000kms, its quality oil and can do the 1000 kms standing on its head. Temperature is the big killer for oil breakdown.

TB

TB for a 4stroke , nothing but the Motul 5100 for me, but the 2stroke have no cams , rockers and the rest, so the two strokers have no problems with the ATF

[DavidMember]

Ollie wrote:

Quote:

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

If I had an automatic transmission I would run automatic transmission oil, makes sense to me as a person in the top end of the mechanical game.

Cheap oil and change more often well, if you have seen Dyno runs and see how much a current 450 four stroke engine loses horsepower wise when it heats up and can understand the demands and pressures placed on rockers cams etc guys how could a cheap oil that can suffer the same heat in the first 30 kms of an given ride offer the same protection as good quality oil?

I use Motul 5100 10w50 and change it around 500kms or after a big weekend with Chicken it maybe 1000kms, its quality oil and can do the 1000 kms standing on its head. Temperature is the big killer for oil breakdown.

TB

Which begs the question”why dont more bike run external Oil coolers”:unsure:

Ollie

True That Ollie:)

[GregMember]

Ollie wrote:

Quote:

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

If I had an automatic transmission I would run automatic transmission oil, makes sense to me as a person in the top end of the mechanical game.

Cheap oil and change more often well, if you have seen Dyno runs and see how much a current 450 four stroke engine loses horsepower wise when it heats up and can understand the demands and pressures placed on rockers cams etc guys how could a cheap oil that can suffer the same heat in the first 30 kms of an given ride offer the same protection as good quality oil?

I use Motul 5100 10w50 and change it around 500kms or after a big weekend with Chicken it maybe 1000kms, its quality oil and can do the 1000 kms standing on its head. Temperature is the big killer for oil breakdown.

TB

Which begs the question”why dont more bike run external Oil coolers”:unsure:

Ollie

Are you saying that would be a good thing or are you disagreeing about heat affecting oil?

I would only be guessing Ollie, but I would cost would be a consideration and who is going the be the first manufacturer to put an oil cooler on there current 450 so people can say they have a heating problem. Why does a DRZ650 have a big oil cooler hanging of the side of it? See the manufacturers recommend quality oil so the heat is not such a problem.

I will see if I can get Fathead to explain a little about the heat and HP that a current 4 stroke experiences when they get hot.

TB

[DeanMember]

Na TB i am fully aware of the effect heat places on an engine, I just think that an oil cooler should be fitted to most bikes especially with the limited amount of oil circulating around the modern engine ie KTM 600ml:ohmy:

hell even the chinese pit bikes have them,is it a cost factor? is it admitting that hey our bikes do run hot especially with our high ambient temps,or is it a weight factor? its got me fugged:blink: probably why I choose to ride two strokes just my two bobs. Ollie

BTW I hear Shell Rotella which is a fully synthetic Diesel oil is the ducks guts (have heard it mentioned on several different forums)

Ollie

[GregMember]

Yeah 600ml is a joke !
Mine holds 2.1 litres (engine & gearbox)

TB

[DeanMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

Yeah 600ml is a joke !
Mine holds 2.1 litres (engine & gearbox)

TB

now thats a decent amount of oil;) I was thinking,( shit thats dangerous:laugh:) The DR650 is actually an air/oilcooled bike hence the external oil cooler,look at the reliability reputation that it carriesB) similar to the older GSXR’s as reliable as an axe

Ollie

[alanMember]

how much oil do crf hondas hold in there engines just for interest sake.there gearbox and moters run seperet oils to don t they

[GregMember]

Have no idea how much they hold, I didnt name names, I just agreed, they run separate the gearbox and the engine, I will google it hang on

Thumpertalk says

700 cc engine, 650 cc transmission.

But remember I didnt name names I just said its wrong

TB

[alanMember]

i think i agree with you tb top end of my bike is apart and the pins that go through the rockers are worn and getting replaced they are blaming the oil?they said it had a huge ring end gap to don t last long do they.might have to get a 2stroke next after seeing how well champos went on the long runs the other day.

[Anonymous]

Somehwere along the line people started assuming that beacsue an oil is cheaper it heats up more? Where did that happen? I could run crude oil in my engine which is $40 for whole barrel and it wouldn’t get as hot as the super duper Motorex, In fact it has to heated to around 120oC just to move like a fluid. Does that mean it’s better for my engine beacuse it’s get’s less hot than my Motorex? The answer you should have realised by now is no.

It’s the properties of the oil we should be interested in. It’s ability to lubricate, resist heat, resist shear and maintain consistency. Just beacuse one oil is cheaper than another it doesn’t necessarily mean squat.

[ChrisMember]

Moto wrote:

Quote:

Motorex is $110 for 4 litres though Chris and the gearbox takes 1.1L whilst the engine only takes 600mL. If you switched to ATF Dexon at however much it costs you could change the gearbox oil every 250K’s (half of the engine oil life) and still save a heap.

As mentioend I’ll give it a whirl, I may also experiment with a decent synth oil for the engine.

Holy Crap, Just checked what I bought last time, it’s motorex 10w-40 4litre semi-synthetic, paid 59.95 for it from Ballards. Why are you paying $110.00

[Bruce CurtisMember]

What Steve said X2, I rused to run two vehicles simultaneously at the drags in the late 80s/ early 90s.
1 was a 380 hp all bells and whistles 12a turbo in my $45k corolla, used exclusively penrite mineral oil changed every meeting or 2000 klicks on the road, never had a failure until I went to a more expensive turbo oil becuase of all the advertising hype and twice the $$$, then for some reason at 10k revs it thinned and seized, lesson learnt, I too have sent a bit of time around both Chassis and engine dynos and as TB stated heat is a huge factor in mechanical failure watched a just run in new duke 951 have a massive coronary due to oil breakdown on a dyno run one day was heartbraking to see, so yes TB is right but price is not the only determining factor in oil quality two main things besides are.

1-origin of the base
2-the QA process the manufacturer utilises

2nd vehicle my ’92 gsxr1100 with dailed cams, tuned carbs, handbuilt pipe and dynoed at 140+ on a well respected tuners dyno on a warm day, (won the old streetbike horsepower shootouts up here back in the 90s) ran exclusively on yes you guessed it Penrite, again a middle of the road oil price but with a highly respected name, that bike hasd only had 2 valve adjustments is still in the family and still pumps out 140+ with 80k on the clock and they are a very hard 80k, believe me it saw 250+ kph everyday for 3 years.

Now with Mobil I have been arounfd heavy machinery all my life including some hotass stationery stuff, and machinery thats cooling systems are completely clogged by days end and I have never heard of a properly maintained machine failing on mobil oil. In fact I have spoken to the mobil oil tech guy on the east coast a few times and he has given me some excellent recommendations and ideas over the past year, so I stick with their stuff now, not bagging the others but I have seen a crf fail on moto-rex and a KTm as well and a suzuki 4t on the fullhouse shell stuff make some interesting noises as well.

A good oil, that doesn’t have to be overpriced changed frequently.

BC

[Eric SmithMember]

Moto, just to drag up my previous point, a lot of guys are using diesel oil in the 4T’s, I’ve checked out a few threads on TT and DBW about it. It seems to work well, as long as you get one without friction modifiers designed for wet clutches. It is also a lot cheaper at about $90 for 20 litres, instead of $60 for 4 litres.

Personally I am of the opinion that it is a performance motorbike, so I will use performance motorbike oil. Have historically used Motul 5100 at 300-500km intervals with a new filter each time. Good gear, if a touch expensive.

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