Motocool, what is it ?

[GregMember]

Thanks Rat, I know all that, I just wanted an explanation for the others is all, knew if I asked enough you may give something up

Just one question, I know about horsepower figures and the relationship to heat, you tell me, would you notice the horsepower drop in your bike once it got hot, remembering of course you dont use all the power its got now as a 576 (I know I wouldnt and dont with my 650) and neither of our bikes have worn out prematurely

TB

[AlexMember]

(Disclaimer – opinion only for the purpose of debate – I’m no expert)

So we have been waiting patiently. The thing is, it seems to me that this chap has discovered a way to measure the cooling system and make changes to reach a predefined “happy place” for it to function.
Even if we did know the finer details friends, it would be up for debate and in the end there will be few (i believe) that would bother making the change. There are 2 interested groups: those with a cooling system problem (due to manuf/design fault or setup problem – lean/air/damage) ; the perfectionist that likes to tinker.

The tinker’ers may need a reality check as the perfect motorcycle will never happen or not worth the trouble. Apoogies for the harshness. This isn’t F1. If only we knew how dodgy the manufacturers are. You may as well build the bike from scratch yourself. Reminds me of that Tank the Germans had in WW2. It was superior engineering that built it, but it failed in the real world against other tanks.

Those with KTM250EXC-F bikes may be interested as I believe that engine has heat issues killing the rings (been there). Other bikes with known design issues may also benefit. But seriously, how many can there be? I still stand by the fact that most of overheating issues are bike setup and/or riding style. If all avenues are exhausted, sure go for it, what can you lose?

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Ok tinkerer here (fiddler even:dry: ).

At medium to normal slow pace I have a bike that to quote a dyed in the wool 4T freak is “the perfect 2 stroke for hillclimbing” it has oodles of grunt down low, with absolute instantaneous throttle response until……….I get into nasty overgrown clutch riding snotty S/T, it doesn’t fuel up (I have been around long enough to know when a bike has jetting or burn issues)but loses the lugability. Now the radiator doesn’t boil, but the bike reacts like it is overheating, which i belieev it is…somewhere in the combustion area is not getting the heat texchange it should be and as a result the power is suffering. Now these are the tracks where I need lowend response the most, cause with a handful of revs to aviod stalling and clutchwork misjudged you launch into the trees and undergrowth all too quickly.

BC

[DavidMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

Thanks Rat, I know all that, I just wanted an explanation for the others is all, knew if I asked enough you may give something up

Just one question, I know about horsepower figures and the relationship to heat, you tell me, would you notice the horsepower drop in your bike once it got hot, remembering of course you dont use all the power its got now as a 576 (I know I wouldnt and dont with my 650) and neither of our bikes have worn out prematurely

TB

You sly dog , weaseling that out of me:laugh: :laugh: You knew I would crack
I %100 agree with you TB, both our bikes have not worn prematurely at all. if anything yours has more Kms than mine, and no Mate I dont think I would notice any drop when I have way too much now, but the little bikes was a vast difference, and I mean VAST, HUGE ,

I am very serious about the development of power for the young-uns and their racing:)

[DavidMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Ok tinkerer here (fiddler even:dry: ).

At medium to normal slow pace I have a bike that to quote a dyed in the wool 4T freak is “the perfect 2 stroke for hillclimbing” it has oodles of grunt down low, with absolute instantaneous throttle response until……….I get into nasty overgrown clutch riding snotty S/T, it doesn’t fuel up (I have been around long enough to know when a bike has jetting or burn issues)but loses the lugability. Now the radiator doesn’t boil, but the bike reacts like it is overheating, which i belieev it is…somewhere in the combustion area is not getting the heat texchange it should be and as a result the power is suffering. Now these are the tracks where I need lowend response the most, cause with a handful of revs to aviod stalling and clutchwork misjudged you launch into the trees and undergrowth all too quickly.

BC

This Can fix this Blue, once the system is equalized you wont experience that anymore

[GregMember]

Ktmrat wrote:

Quote:

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Ok tinkerer here (fiddler even:dry: ).

At medium to normal slow pace I have a bike that to quote a dyed in the wool 4T freak is “the perfect 2 stroke for hillclimbing” it has oodles of grunt down low, with absolute instantaneous throttle response until……….I get into nasty overgrown clutch riding snotty S/T, it doesn’t fuel up (I have been around long enough to know when a bike has jetting or burn issues)but loses the lugability. Now the radiator doesn’t boil, but the bike reacts like it is overheating, which i belieev it is…somewhere in the combustion area is not getting the heat texchange it should be and as a result the power is suffering. Now these are the tracks where I need lowend response the most, cause with a handful of revs to aviod stalling and clutchwork misjudged you launch into the trees and undergrowth all too quickly.

BC

This Can fix this Blue, once the system is equalized you wont experience that anymore

Money back guarantee rat :laugh: is that it? Big claim that :ohmy:

TB

[DavidMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

Ktmrat wrote:

Quote:

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Ok tinkerer here (fiddler even:dry: ).

At medium to normal slow pace I have a bike that to quote a dyed in the wool 4T freak is “the perfect 2 stroke for hillclimbing” it has oodles of grunt down low, with absolute instantaneous throttle response until……….I get into nasty overgrown clutch riding snotty S/T, it doesn’t fuel up (I have been around long enough to know when a bike has jetting or burn issues)but loses the lugability. Now the radiator doesn’t boil, but the bike reacts like it is overheating, which i belieev it is…somewhere in the combustion area is not getting the heat texchange it should be and as a result the power is suffering. Now these are the tracks where I need lowend response the most, cause with a handful of revs to aviod stalling and clutchwork misjudged you launch into the trees and undergrowth all too quickly.

BC

This Can fix this Blue, once the system is equalized you wont experience that anymore

Money back guarantee rat :laugh: is that it? Big claim that :ohmy:

TB

Full concrete warranty…..take of the concrete warranty expires;) :silly: :woohoo: :side: :side: :side:

[GregMember]

Ktmrat wrote:

Quote:

Full concrete warranty…..take of the concrete warranty expires;) :silly: :woohoo: :side: :side: :side:

Thats what I thought :dry:

TB

[DeanMember]

Bill has explained and shown me some of the mods he has done and some of the things that the manufacturers do is not to do with efficiencies more to save them a dollar,this also includes cars trucks etc. From what I could gather the more highly stressed engines benefit the most like the small 2 stroke minis and 250 four strokes but all bikes would see some benefit.

Ollie

[AlexMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Ok tinkerer here (fiddler even:dry: ).

At medium to normal slow pace I have a bike that to quote a dyed in the wool 4T freak is “the perfect 2 stroke for hillclimbing” it has oodles of grunt down low, with absolute instantaneous throttle response until……….I get into nasty overgrown clutch riding snotty S/T, it doesn’t fuel up (I have been around long enough to know when a bike has jetting or burn issues)but loses the lugability. Now the radiator doesn’t boil, but the bike reacts like it is overheating, which i belieev it is…somewhere in the combustion area is not getting the heat texchange it should be and as a result the power is suffering. Now these are the tracks where I need lowend response the most, cause with a handful of revs to aviod stalling and clutchwork misjudged you launch into the trees and undergrowth all too quickly.

BC

Gday Bruce, seems to me your out of reasonable explanations why that’s happening. If I may, I’ll comment on your theory. Would you not be seeing symptoms of overheating other than boiling? Pinging? High or hanging idle? Spark plug showing blistering and other signs of overheating? Scorch mark under the piston crown? Too much compression?
To be honest, I’m not sure what’s causing your issues. I haven’t experienced it.

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Axel I have run out of fixes nad many smokers have these issues, it is why we have liquid cooling in the first place, equalising the temperatures around the power unit. Inside the chamber i have a reasonably good flame spread, while squish is not perfect, it is good enough to not warranted CCing the head yet, the underside of the piston crown has the glorious 10cent piece caramel mark, but and a big but, I have experienced mild detonation, but infrequently and it quickly disappears i put this down to dead fuel or more likely this hotspotting. Now i reckon I know exactly what Rat and Bull are on about, but again I don’t know the fix…they do. It’s like the rotaries we used to race, we would plumb extra oil lines in to extract oil and cool it before it hit the known hot spots and reroute it back into those areas, a bit messy but we gained sustainable HP and the engines lasted longer. But they were easy as they ran twin oil pumps and the housings run alternate oil and water galleries.

I will be highly interested once the boys give me the go-ahead to get this done.

BC

[GregMember]

And the cost?

TB

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

And the cost?

TB

I’ll have to weigh that up when the lads tell me I guess T/B, if it’s reasonable and a DIY fix I’ll be all for it.
if not I’ll have to think about alternative methods
BC

[DavidMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

And the cost?

TB

I’ll have to weigh that up when the lads tell me I guess T/B, if it’s reasonable and a DIY fix I’ll be all for it.
if not I’ll have to think about alternative methods
BC

A proto would have to made for your bike and some of the things can be done at home but some cannot, Costs ….Speak to Bull and then I will double it as his agent fee:P

Seriously it is not too bid a deal all things considered, but you will have to speak to him , I was there tonight and he is coming back online soon so patience Blue, all will be good:)

[Anonymous]

The theory from the little information given is sound. However, I am very interested to see how the ‘deficiencies’ are measured. Also, What are you measuring to determine this? Mass flow, pressure, velocity, , discharge coefficients, temperature profiling?

I wonder how you can measure this data without using some very expensive ultasonic equipment or making lots of measuring points.

Also you say ‘equalise’ but equalise what? I assume you mean obtaining a uniform flow profile through the cylinder head ‘equalising’ high pressure/flow zones with low pressure/flow zones?

[Author]

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