Motocool, what is it ?

[DavidMember]

Yes Moto we had a $5000 Data logger that had 12 pick up ports all around the show, measuring temp, flow, vacuum, and rpm, as well as elapsed times, with the temps, flow and vac being picked up at multiple locations simultaneously, I was shit scared my kid was going to drop it and we would have to sell the bike to pay, we actually started with a stock bog set up to gain a bench mark set of data and then went for it with one mod at a time, 4 weeks later……., data does not lie and patterns will emerge if you are willing to take the time to analyze, and analyze we did….and fix we did….ask anyone that sees my boys bikes perform Moto:)

[GregMember]

Ktmrat wrote:

Quote:

Yes Moto we had a $5000 Data logger that had 12 pick up ports all around the show, measuring temp, flow, vacuum, and rpm, as well as elapsed times, with the temps, flow and vac being picked up at multiple locations simultaneously, I was shit scared my kid was going to drop it and we would have to sell the bike to pay, we actually started with a stock bog set up to gain a bench mark set of data and then went for it with one mod at a time, 4 weeks later……., data does not lie and patterns will emerge if you are willing to take the time to analyze, and analyze we did….and fix we did….ask anyone that sees my boys bikes perform Moto:)

I understand all of that and yes it makes sense and the same testing is done in house at cummins, I will attach some information and pictures of the information that I am allowed to here on our ISL 8.9L engine that only yesterday I was looking at and the CFD results and mods from its testing

Your kids bikes perform well yes, have you actually dyno tested and compared REAL hp and torque figures before and after to compare? I only ask because people will take the baffle out of a bike and be convinced it goes better when it doesnt, it just sounds louder and doctors cure people with sugar tablets because people are convinced it is making them better.

I am not saying for a minute that there is nothing to be gained from all this, I know there is, but for the amount of work and cost you are talking about is there enough to be gained is my question, given that I feel none of the bikes I have seen built or raced and won titles for GHR have modified cooling systems (and I have seen the engines being built for the A4DE, the spirit series and finke all title winning in one way or another the year in question). Are any of the bikes that kids are using to win races/ championships done, no if I believe what I am told, the kids that are winning you club championships arent modified are they, young Pollards RM isn’t done and isn’t he going well.

Remember I agree there are things to be gained, and I have seen performance losses on dynos from a CRF250F that shocked me once the engine got hot, but and here is another fact, the engine is still going to get to operating temperature, doesnt matter how you flow it, doesnt matter if you get rid of all the hot spots as Blue called them, doesnt matter how many pressure problems you fix or even if you increase the efficiency of the pump at high RPM it is still going to get to operating temp because that’s the job of the cooling system to get the engine to its operating temp and try to keep it there, given that its the most thermal efficient way for the engine to perform, between that and boiling is a narrow window I ask again with all the bikes winning championships without it done again how much is to be gained, would love to see some real dyno figures

Again please note I am in no way saying there is no benefit from this

Also the information I will post later will be heavily screened because of my work position

TB

[GregMember]

There is more to come I hope, I have to get checked what I get show

TB

[AlexMember]

Quote:

I am not saying for a minute that there is nothing to be gained from all this, I know there is, but for the amount of work and cost you are talking about is there enough to be gained is my question, given that I feel none of the bikes I have seen built or raced and won titles for GHR have modified cooling systems (and I have seen the engines being built for the A4DE, the spirit series and finke all title winning in one way or another the year in question). Are any of the bikes that kids are using to win races/ championships done, no if I believe what I am told, the kids that are winning you club championships arent modified are they, young Pollards RM isn’t done and isn’t he going well.

I’m with TB 100%. Waiting and watching.

[Paul BaylyMember]

You blokes think too much…………:dry:

[Anonymous]

I was wondering when Computational Fluid Dynamics would get thrown into the equation. Our engineers use this a fair bit too.

I’m a big cynic, so kill me….but….I would say that measuring only 12 points in the system is insufficient given the degree of perfomance increase one would look for to make it a value for money excercise.

I think TB is right though. The best way to help Bull sell his skills is to get some real world numbers and stick it on a dyno back to back.

[Bruce CurtisMember]

re points of data collection, Moto on a basic 2T single cylinder engine where do you estimate the critical measurements should be taken?, now i am only a layman in all of this with no formal background in thermo-dynamics so treat me as an indiot if that is warranted, but i would have thought if we followed the flame spread it would be a good indicator to begin with.

Bruce

[Anonymous]

If you are measuring flow and hotspost then the more data you collect the better. Think of trying to draw a curved graph with 3 points and then one with 20. Which will be more accurate. The same is true for any measurements. I would be taking them at as manay points as possible to maximise the benefit of the excercise.

After all, the whole point of doing this is optimisation of system and not fixing a broken system, so why not do it as best as possible?

I’m just saying that doing 12 points doesn’t necessarily give you a really smooth curve (to use the previous analogy) it’s just straiht line between points.

Unless your bike has an abnormal problem with cooling/heat soak (which I appreciate your belive yours to have a low rpm), I don’t see the advantage for the time/money/effort.

[DeanMember]

Blue I would liken Bulls Motocool system to the Viagara.

It will keep your bike goinging harder for longer!!:woohoo:

and honestly 12 points of measurement on a single cylinder engine is a shitload. The next best thing for measurement would be Thermography. The real test is the seat of the pants testing and this can be seen on Daves young fella’s bike, I hope you dont mind me saying this Dave, The officials made him strip his 65 down to see why it was going so hard and strong thinking he had done something illegal,they couldnt find anything but still wouldnt let him race because they thought he was somehow cheating:blink: It was the cooling system!! More proof is the fact that he can get such a long service out of a piston and ring set and no stator issues which is a big problem with these little bikes.

just my 2c

bring on the technology and good ol aussie ingenuity I say

Ollie

[Mick DMember]

I’ll add my 2 bobs worth by saying Dave’s little Pro senior 50 absolutely rips and is still on the same set of rings and stator, which if you know pro seniors is saying something in itself.There could very well be something to be gained even if it is just longetivity.

[Bruce CurtisMember]

micknmeld wrote:

Quote:

I’ll add my 2 bobs worth by saying Dave’s little Pro senior 50 absolutely rips and is still on the same set of rings and stator, which if you know pro seniors is saying something in itself.There could very well be something to be gained even if it is just longetivity.

Your not wrong on the Pro-senior stator issue, I used to run 250ml of DXIII + 25 ml of Two2cool in both of Brentons SX50s’ and his MA-50 cause of that reason alone.

They are hot running little buggers and because of the clutch set-up it makes it worse.

BC

[GregMember]

Dave does Bull hire the $5000 Data logger for every bike he does?

TB

[CranckyMember]

to my ignorant ears sounds a bit like a free lunch deal,

bit like http://www.uxl.com.au

[DavidMember]

crancky1 wrote:

Quote:

to my ignorant ears sounds a bit like a free lunch deal,

bit like http://www.uxl.com.au

WTF
try reading it again but this time with you eyes open you wally:angry:

[DavidMember]

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

Dave does Bull hire the $5000 Data logger for every bike he does?

TB

At that time TB , Bull worked where the data logger lived and it came home “overnight by accident” and stayed with us for weeks and weeks, just as well they had several at work;)

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