Motocool, what is it ?

[GregMember]

crancky1 wrote:

Quote:

to my ignorant ears sounds a bit like a free lunch deal,

bit like http://www.uxl.com.au

Ha ha :laugh: :laugh: I need more info before I cast judgement

TB

[CranckyMember]

Ktmrat wrote:

Quote:

crancky1 wrote:

Quote:

to my ignorant ears sounds a bit like a free lunch deal,

bit like http://www.uxl.com.au

WTF
try reading it again but this time with you eyes open you wally:angry:

I quote your leading thread:
I have been building Motors and tuning them for years, and when KTM Bull first started on this cooling system I was in no way going to have anything to do with it as I was sure manufacturers had spent Millions developing and researching cooling systems, after months of Bulls patient explaining to this stubborn one,

I am as you were .

[Anonymous]

I’m sceptical about it doing anything of any worth on a 450. I don’t know about the little bikes but from the sounds of it they run very hot and likely suffer big heat soak, therefore any mod to the cooling increases performance.

I don’t think the difference will be so night and day with the bigger bikes. Why aren’t the factory riders doing it if so?

[GregMember]

The hp drop of in a 450 when they get hot is massive, but most of us wouldn’t notice the difference and they are still winning championships without the mod so go figure

TB

[Anonymous]

Maybe so, I still don’t think the cooling mod will help much. If you could increase flow and maintain the temperature at the optimum then yes, but the motocool system keeps all the standard gear but acts to maximise it’s efficiency.

[DavidMember]

Moto wrote:

Quote:

Maybe so, I still don’t think the cooling mod will help much. If you could increase(wrong Moto, increases in flow usually result in less cooling exchange efficiency) flow and maintain the temperature at the optimum then yes, but the motocool system keeps all the standard gear Wrong Moto, the standard gear is usually added to somewhat, and the full race version replaces whole pump assemblies, like the 525 kit that Bull has on Scott’s bike but acts to maximise it’s efficiency.

Sorry Moto but I still love you ya know:P

[Anonymous]

Okay, cheers Dave. From reading the previous threads I got the impression that no parts were actually changed

Cooling efficiency is based on temperature change (a differential between the coolant and the medium to be cooled – in this case a cylinder head) the only time increasing flow won’t help is if it doesn’t cool down itself before passing past the cylinder head again (meaning a reduced temperature differential and therefore a reduced cooling efficiency). In cases like this the amount of coolant used needs to be increased or the radiators need to make made bigger to dissipate more heat

What I’m saying is that unless the collant flowing past the head isn’t be sufficiently cooled how can increasing flow not help?

[DavidMember]

its easy Mate, if you rush the coolant past said object to be cooled then it has not much time to take the heat, has it,….therefore increasing flow does not always help

[Anonymous]

Yes, but you were sighting heat soak as one of the issues. If that’s the case how will increasing the flow not help? There either isn’t enough coolant or it’s not flowing quickly enough and becoming saturated with heat

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Ok I promised not to get involved any further in this thread but i cannot help myself, many years ago one had wire in ones’ oil cooler cores to help the oil actually transfer heat to the atmoshere via the aluminium jacket, the wire was to interupt straight flow and cause a “swirling action, to add to this many moons ago I set an alloy 4 core showa radiator in a high perf rotary powered car at a 25 degrees neg slant so the air couldn’t just pass through it had to turn and force past the obstacle before it and therefore more air to more surface area of the fins/cores etc, it also had the benefit of being a huge radiator of exerting downward pressure to hold the car down at very high speeds, as the vehicle was well under 1100kgs wet weight.

Now to go back to slowing the medium down, this makes a lot of sense, and as also the coolant could be flowing “inside itself” like I s’pose a piece of resin cored solder, and be coll on the inner but hot on the outer… but this is all just surmising on my behalf with no actual science behind my thoughts.

BC

[DavidMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Ok I promised not to get involved any further in this thread but i cannot help myself, many years ago one had wire in ones’ oil cooler cores to help the oil actually transfer heat to the atmoshere via the aluminium jacket, the wire was to interupt straight flow and cause a “swirling action, to add to this many moons ago I set an alloy 4 core showa radiator in a high perf rotary powered car at a 25 degrees neg slant so the air couldn’t just pass through it had to turn and force past the obstacle before it and therefore more air to more surface area of the fins/cores etc, it also had the benefit of being a huge radiator of exerting downward pressure to hold the car down at very high speeds, as the vehicle was well under 1100kgs wet weight.

Now to go back to slowing the medium down, this makes a lot of sense, and as also the coolant could be flowing “inside itself” like I s’pose a piece of resin cored solder, and be coll on the inner but hot on the outer… but this is all just surmising on my behalf with no actual science behind my thoughts.

BC

Uh Huh:) Keep thinking BC

[GregMember]

Ktmrat wrote:

Quote:

its easy Mate, if you rush the coolant past said object to be cooled then it has not much time to take the heat, has it,….therefore increasing flow does not always help

But if it flows too slow it absorbs to much heat and then cant absorb more on its journey to the radiators where again it needs a flow speed to cool it, then there is the balancing act because what happens when the revs increase or decrease and how is you two guys in a shed can out engineer a multi billion dollar factory? Given that they like you have to work all the above and more between 700rpm to say 9000rpm.

And all of this flow is governed by the thermostat isn’t it? Yes it is! Does everybody know how a thermostat works? Why a system has a thermostat and why its so important? And understand it controls flow to do its job.The more I read about this the more I think about it I keep thinking sugar tablets with smoke and mirrors

Again bikes racing everywhere without it are winning titles, no one has been beaten by a bike because the cooling system has been modified

(this has been put in simpler terms for everybody reading)

TB

[Bruce CurtisMember]

Actually TB, an old superbike I was able to play with had flow restrictors in place of a thermostat, and this was a trick used on some road bikes back in the eighties, just a disc with a hole drilled in the middle placed in various parts of the system. Wish i paid more attention to that now, instead of what duration and lift the cams had, and what choke size was in the carbys……:blush:

BC

[GregMember]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please be clear I know know one is meaning to rip anybody of or be fraudulent in any way shape or form

For other uses, see Smoke and mirrors (disambiguation).
Smoke and mirrors is a metaphor for a deceptive, fraudulent or insubstantial explanation or description. The source of the name is based on magicians’ illusions, where magicians make objects appear or disappear by extending or retracting mirrors amid a confusing burst of smoke. The expression may have a connotation of virtuosity or cleverness in carrying out such a deception.

:laugh: :laugh:

OK thats my piss pull

TB

[DavidMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Actually TB, an old superbike I was able to play with had flow restrictors in place of a thermostat, and this was a trick used on some road bikes back in the eighties, just a disc with a hole drilled in the middle placed in various parts of the system. Wish i paid more attention to that now, instead of what duration and lift the cams had, and what choke size was in the carbys……:blush:

BC

Uh Huh BC…… that a boy……… way back when computers did not think for us.

TB we have not out engineered anyone, it is mearly what was worked out in the 30’s and 40’s by several motor manufacturers, no smoke and mirrors, and as you know I am an obsessive compulsive about bikes, also there are several race teams in all sorts of motor sports that reroute coolant for various reasons, so,….
when you really think you have your head around it , its not until you realise a little about something, and then you work out you dont know a lot about it at all

[Author]

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