new xr650r hp wanted

[Thomas GuyMember]

hi guys i pick this bike up like 2 month ago 2004 xr650r for $3500 27k
it apparently had some head work the inlet & outlet bordout. it dose have full staintune & air box mods.
i would like to know if the carby on it is stock XR or not is said on carby Keihin PE 78DBRKA as im on a quest 4 big hp also whats the diff between hot cams stage 1 & 2 thank u for your time

[attachment=3572]xr650.jpg[/attachment]

[Mick DMember]

My guess is that it is the standard carby. The boys in the states chasing HP all go the the edelbrock pumper carbs.

TB is probably the best fella to answer the cam questions, he is away this weekend but I am sure he will chime in and sort you out, upon his return.

[anthonyMember]

When Honda was making the XR650r there was a HRC power up kit available which gave a claimed 20% increase in hp.
That’s when Michael Byrne was beating all the 426’s in the thumper nats on one. I know there was a piston in the kit but I don’t know what else.

[Mick DMember]

I am thinking this would be the HRC kit you refer too,

http://world.honda.com/HRC/products/kit/xr650r_kit/

[GregMember]

anty7504 wrote:

When Honda was making the XR650r there was a HRC power up kit available which gave a claimed 20% increase in hp.
That’s when Michael Byrne was beating all the 426’s in the thumper nats on one. I know there was a piston in the kit but I don’t know what else.

From memory the HRC kit contained cams, piston, timing chain, timing gears top and bottom, two tensioners (wider chain used) timing chain tensioner, two rubber dowels that slide over the studs where the barrel joins the head to reduce vibrations, main jets, needle and a spark plug (HRC spark plug $100 plug)

The early XR 400 kits also had a different primary drive but that was dropped because you could just change the gearing and get almost the same result

Nick Dole at Tekniks built all the safari bikes when the 650s won the safaris and condo in Aus and is the best man in Aus on an XR650R . Nick built mine an ex GHR and it has done over 50k of all riding and racing and still hauls the mail. Nick gets a reliable 62hp out of one, he said that at 62hp they will do a whole safari with at race pace without an engine change. Put shit fuel in and it will fail a big end within two hrs at race pace. He also said he can get 72hp out of one but only for a very short time :laugh: you can hear it tick (meaning like a bomb waiting to blow up ) standard is around 45hp

TB

[Thomas GuyMember]

thanks for the replays guys. i took the bike out on the weekend to the hawkesbury on tar roads the bike was easily gettin to 180 which is the speedos max so f#ing stoked. so 2day i got the bike on a dyno & she puts out 68hp 400lb 145km/h in 4th gear this is the best second hand bike i ever bought ps it dose have HRC stickers i think i got lucky on this one

[GregMember]

MICK!!!! :laugh: Fark I typed all that from memory for nothing :huh: oh well I forgot the clutch springs :blush: I should have looked it up would have been the smart thing :pinch:

If you want cam information and stuff asked Nick, I believe a stage 2 is close to the HRC grind. If you go anything more you will need the wider chain to help with the loads. I asked about carby once and was told it wasnt worth the cost. Again Nick really knows these things and has been the biggest help I have ever had for solid advice.

TB

[GregMember]

Fark! 68 at the rear is bigger than hitlers gas bill :ohmy: also if your speedo hasnt been calibrated you do know it will be out on the road with the 17inch from wheel as its calibrated for a 21inch front from the factory. Will have to hook up for a motard ride as we have been talking about doing one for a while now. Where did you get it dyno’ed? Battyes has an awesome dyno setup and can do it with a knobby fitted if anyone is interested.

TB

[Mick DMember]

Trailboss wrote:

MICK!!!! :laugh: Fark I typed all that from memory for nothing :huh: oh well I forgot the clutch springs :blush: I should have looked it up would have been the smart thing :pinch:

TB

I mightn’t be able to ride for shyte, but I am a gun with Google!

[GregMember]

micknmeld wrote:

Trailboss wrote:

MICK!!!! :laugh: Fark I typed all that from memory for nothing :huh: oh well I forgot the clutch springs :blush: I should have looked it up would have been the smart thing :pinch:

TB

I mightn’t be able to ride for shyte, but I am a gun with Google!

Should have figured it would be you or the other google expert :laugh: It’s all about the personal touch Mick :laugh:

Pictures are nice but

TB

[Thomas GuyMember]

thank you once again guys i honestly didnt know who good the bike was an till i got on the open winding roads with a friend on his road bike i thought i was going to be embarrassed turns out he was .
got back to work and thought this bike must be heaps beter than stock rang up ENVY DYNO becuse there 2 blocks away from work went down there took 5mins and $80 the guy said 68hp is impressing i had no idear.
in need a front wheel for the bike if some one has one i can buy so i can get on the dirt with u guys

[Mick DMember]

Bugger riding on the dirt with you and that monster. :blink:

A stock Big Red Pig throws big enough rocks thank you. I can only imagine the besser blocks it would throw. :ohmy: :pinch:

[GregMember]

Yammyman wrote:

thank you once again guys i honestly didnt know who good the bike was an till i got on the open winding roads with a friend on his road bike i thought i was going to be embarrassed turns out he was .
got back to work and thought this bike must be heaps beter than stock rang up ENVY DYNO becuse there 2 blocks away from work went down there took 5mins and $80 the guy said 68hp is impressing i had no idear.
in need a front wheel for the bike if some one has one i can buy so i can get on the dirt with u guys

I can help you with a wheel I reckon, PM me your number and I will give you a ring. I am not doubting how it goes I know how they go but I reckon from experience with these things and I have more than most old mates dyno needs recalibrating :whistle: Especially when the most experienced bloke in Aus who built and developed the race ones said 62 reliable is it and 72 is a time bomb. The special he was building for the King of Nepean dirt track title was only going to be good for a 4 lap race at 72hp :ohmy: :ohmy: Maybe its 68 and good as gold I hope it is, or maybe it’s a time bomb if it is actually 68hp. I know Nick couldnt get 72hp without a exhaust that only one guy in Aus has, I have a very close copy but it wouldnt cut the whole 72 Nick said Either way more than happy to help you with a front wheel I have a few :laugh: And look forward to getting out for a ride

TB

[GregMember]

Does it have a stock back wheel Yammyman? It looks smaller and fatter? I have fronts like I said and maybe a rear I will have to work out what I want to part with as far as rears go as I have broken a rear hub tearing the spokes out :pinch:

Best of with Tallon hubs and different rims because the rear wheel bearings dont last long on the standard hubs sprocket side especially when you start getting up in the power figures you are talking about. The tallon has two bearings sprocket side

TB

[Nick DoleMember]

The Safari bikes in 2004 had 59.5hp at the wheel on a Dyno Dynamics. I have heard of 75hp in Europe but i think it’s the dyno operator making his customers feel good.
Having said that we did have the factory KTM 700’s out here in 2004 and Jamie/Paul said that they could lost nothing to them on the hardpack, it was only in the deep sand the KTM made some ground. they were reputed to have 75hp. Hard to compare dyno numbers, eddy current/inertia different days, different tyres..
We pulled a genuine 183 km/h in full safari trim, not very aero dynamic, Max and i made the windscreens with a jigsaw, heatgun and some wood. Jason Hill made 190km/h at finke on his with a stage 2 hotcam but it wouldn’t last the run down to finke without snapping the rocker arms off….
Suffice to say a stock derestricted 650R was usually 42-43hp. add a pipe and the HRC air box lid mod and you get to 46-47. From there with porting, more comp, HRC cam, vortex ignition and not much else you get 59 ish.
We had to use Staintune pipes, they were writing cheques for The Penguin and money comes before performance so we threw away 3-4hp from not using a reverse cone megaphone. I asked staintune to make it, they could but it looked too goofy to race on one pipe and sell another. We did have a small win though, I kept whining the header pipe sizes were too small, in fact the whole system was too small. Staintune eventually made a big bore one and we found some more power. it became the production item after that.
The HRC cam is very similar to the stage 1 hotcam. i had the HRC cam copied in 2000 as HRC kits were $2500 and when your “Honda Racing” parts budget for the year was 5K it made things too tight. in 2004 it was no different, the engine Jamie won on in 2004 used a copy HRC cam, think it had the little timing chain in it too.
You can make bigger hp numbers out of the 650R but it takes RPM. We were making peak hp at 8200 from memory and shifting at about that (unless you initials are GB, then you bounce off the limiter at 9200 and i raise it to 9600, waiting for the crankcase to vent to atmosphere)
Big cams like the stage 2 will make more power but you loose torque under 5000 and if you rev it to use the power the rockers become unreliable. Never broke a cam chain though.
As for the carburettor, Burner used a stock carb in 2000 to win thumpers. In 2001 he swapped mechanics and they fitted an FCR41. from what i could see on the side of the track the bike was having a hard time driving out of corners, the power became quite snappy and 60hp is a lot for a 110 knobby, i think it’s the limit.Tthe stock carb works fine as long as you ride it like a thumper, clutch out all the time, smooth throttle, no brake sliding into corners, clutch in and snapping the throttle open, goon style.
Interestingly enough, Glen Bell tried an FCR on his thumper nats winning XR600 in 1995, he also found it too snappy, Pip went back to the stock carb and that’s what they won on in 1996.

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