[GregMember]

We may camp down there, but will see, if we dont camp would be there about 10 or so I would think

TB

[GregMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

TB there may be a basic mistake you’re making here in comparing the engineering level that goes into a world class diesel workhorse that can do literally a million+ ks before a teardown and the development towards longevity that a “revised by the minute” small engine that has one design criteria, to win magazine shootouts and sell more units, I fall into these traqps of thinking which backs us into corners at times as well, I’m defintely not saying anyone is, but is it a possibility?.

there may indeed be bugger all improvement in this area to be done on a 15L 2000ftlb 600 hp evolutionary unit that costs an arm and a leg to buyand has sensors galore, but has that translated into the mass manufacturing highly fickle dirtbike arena, is there improvements to be had?

I could be wrong as i frequently am.

BC

Bruce we have some cooling system problems at work at times that make me think that our design team and pre testing was done in the monkey cage at the zoo :laugh: Blocks cracking, heat spots, burnt gaskets, pistons melted to the liner that a 30 tonne press cant get out :ohmy:

Every cooling system can be improved thats never been the arugment.

As I said from the start I thought there could be improvements, but how much is to be gained was the question

Trailboss wrote:

Quote:

I am not saying for a minute that there is nothing to be gained from all this, I know there is, but for the amount of work and cost you are talking about is there enough to be gained is my question,
Remember I agree there are things to be gained, and I have seen performance losses on dynos from a CRF250F that shocked me once the engine got hot, but and here is another fact, the engine is still going to get to operating temperature, doesnt matter how you flow it, doesnt matter if you get rid of all the hot spots as Blue called them, doesnt matter how many pressure problems you fix or even if you increase the efficiency of the pump at high RPM it is still going to get to operating temp because that’s the job of the cooling system to get the engine to its operating temp and try to keep it there, given that its the most thermal efficient way for the engine to perform, between that and boiling is a narrow window I ask again with all the bikes winning championships without it done again how much is to be gained, would love to see some real dyno figures

Again please note I am in no way saying there is no benefit from this

TB

This is where the Dyno run will show the gains at given operating temperatures.

The whole cooling system given that it operates over such a wide rev range is a compromise, (with pump speed and cavitation and flow etc) it is impossible to have it working at its optimum at 2000rpm and at 7000rpm. If you modify components to make it work better at 2000rpm then it will be worse at higher rpm, every action has a reaction, nothing for nothing.

I reckon I know what they are modifying but how do you decide at what rpm range is the optimum rpm to have your system set up for allowing for flow speeds against restrictions and cooling time through the radiators is also critical, given the way a dirt bike is ridden

I will talk with Scott at Battyes today regarding the dyno runs

And yes Bruce I enjoy the brain work, not the riddles :laugh:

TB

[GregMember]

vman wrote:

Quote:

niiiiiice indeed, im in this summer for this one!!!

Sorry vman does that mean you want the last spot on this ride Sat the 29th leaving Teralba at 6.30am ??

TB

[GregMember]

Here is some video of it, but its over 40kms long, well really there’s about 200kms of it. Where it is, well it was shared to me by a gentleman that asked we dont broadcast its location but just ride it, sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJpozi2Piqc

TB

[GregMember]

Justo wrote:

Quote:

Sounds like a great ride guys, But DAMN shift work has reared its ugly head on that weekend… :angry: Have a good one

Be a shame to be sick that saturday Justo :laugh:

TB

[GregMember]

My IRC has now done nearly 450kms and is looking ok, I cant take a photo of them as it is at Dan’s but it has offered fantastic traction in all conditions, I did notice a couple of knobs had the corners chunked a little, need to get some photos. They are easy to fit and are at this stage good value for money at $105.

More to come after the next ride as its 350kms over all surfaces

TB

[GregMember]

See thats a whole other issue Blue, to cool a running causes wear, thats the truth, thats one of the three important reasons we have thermostats.

The dyno is the only fair way to work this one out, rather then trying to put perfect laps together on 4 identical bikes if there is such a thing four times over :blink:

I will wait and see what they say, Scott will provide electrical print outs on his new dyno, we can run the them for however long they want without the fan to get it to the operating temperature they want.

TB

On the water pump thing you talked about I will see if I can get some pics of the variable pitch pumps we use, trick

TB

[GregMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

TB there may be a basic mistake you’re making here in comparing the engineering level that goes into a world class diesel workhorse that can do literally a million+ ks before a teardown and the development towards longevity that a “revised by the minute” small engine that has one design criteria, to win magazine shootouts and sell more units, I fall into these traqps of thinking which backs us into corners at times as well, I’m defintely not saying anyone is, but is it a possibility?.

there may indeed be bugger all improvement in this area to be done on a 15L 2000ftlb 600 hp evolutionary unit that costs an arm and a leg to buyand has sensors galore, but has that translated into the mass manufacturing highly fickle dirtbike arena, is there improvements to be had?

I could be wrong as i frequently am.

BC

Blue I have offered to have our KTM 85 modified and I will pick the tab for ALL the dyno runs under the conditions they want

TB

[GregMember]

This ride will be the one of the best this year, it as all the best tracks I have done this year, including the A track, the section from Freemans to Mt Faulk, the Yengo Run, two wicked hill climbs that are a fair challenge, the single at the top of Heaton and its a fair ride to boot. I also have a surprise for the way home.

TB

[GregMember]

Ollie wrote:

Quote:

I think the stubby coolers on your fender would look sh#t:laugh:

Ollie

Even OBT ones will Ollie

TB

[GregMember]

Mr Blue wrote:

Quote:

Ok a bit of research with a learned mate this afternoon, and Mr Rat, I know where you are at, I just don’t know how you’re doing it, there is limited space to play with unless we use gasket restrictors in certain areas as well, or maybe even more radical approaches, like cutting every second fin off the impellor like we used to do with drag motors .

Thinking in reverse about cooling systems actual functions isn’t it, so far the cart has been thought of as less important than the horse, but in fact the cart is the reason the horse has a job to do…

I love this stuff, it’s mechanics with your brain going back to real basics, and way way cool.

PUN INTENDED

BC

Thats the same as the DFSE’s said at work this arvo when we thrashed it out, gasket holes sizing is some thing we do on our C series engine, and block hole sizing on the X series but they where designed from the go get like this but again how much benefit is the question

Lets get one on the Dyno Dave

TB

[GregMember]

What about the dyno, all the runs you want under the conditions you request, digital print out, figures Dave they dont lie remember. Lap times on a motorcross track to many variables

TB

[GregMember]

Thirsty2454 wrote:

Quote:

Menace, Im only new to this forum, but ive seen a photo of you head, and I reckon youd be happy with any girl you can get.:laugh:

Thats funny because its true :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

TB

[GregMember]

Yeah they should be there mate, left tuesday with TNT as promised

TB

[GregMember]

Sorry Menace a KTM 85 they may have done one of those and save money, will edit the post

TB

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